some things I've noticed: Mobil Safari seems to be using the search bar to hijack my google search (Particularly for locations which open in apple maps)
Although I'm mostly linux these days I went to install an alternative browser on a windows machine (using edge to download). I mentioned this in another post, but edge seems to watch for "chrome" or "firefox" downloads and politely reminds you that 'Edge is a great browser with added "trust of microsoft"' (A company who happen to be watching when you download a web browser).
https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/2/22813733/microsoft-window...
Linux seems like an OS that is way more respectful.
Battery throtteling on the iPhone 6s; The sandboxing / sideloading discussion; The no-iCloud experience; The way that regular bluetooth headsets work fine, but AirPods work even better; How unauthorized Apps on MacOS must be opened with a right-click.
Safari suggestions are also a great example: So far, I like them in iOS 17, since they can also provide direct links to useful sites such as Wikipedia. But don't doubt for a second, that taking traffic away from Google was the primary goal here.
Microsoft isn't so smart. Most users, including non-technical, can see through their attempts.
Now you get the benefit of Windows power management (and that beautiful laptop battery life) but a web browser Microsoft isn't going to mess with.
This sounds hilarious were it not the way I actually work.
PS: I'll also mention that VSCode from Windows to WSL2 + Debian is a mind-blowingly wonderful thing, I don't know how it works but it's near magical as a dev environment when you need a full Linux but like having battery life.
"Ultimately though, if this experience isn't right for you, you can turn off this feature the first time it launches in Microsoft Edge, and then in Outlook settings at any time after that."
To be fair, you trust Microsoft to be your OS. Installing another browser means that there are now two parties that could be malicious or hacked (distribute a compromised update) rather than one.
FWIW, I run Firefox on Debian Linux and an open source browser on Android as well (so no Safari hijacking going on either), but I can see valid logic in their statement ...even if they might not themselves have considered whether this is true before using it as marketing
Anecdata, I know, but I've never experienced this across any iOS versions.
Though given how shitty Apple's own software has become, I wouldn't be surprised if it's an integration gone awry.
Unless you are referring to the search field on google.com, it is not hijacking’s your google searches. It is suggesting actions based on your input to the url bar.
I was introduced to the following concept[1] some time back, and I can't help but think it gives a very reasonable explanation as to why everything is a subscription these days.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendency_of_the_rate_of_profit...
We need a comeback of antitrust enforcement with teeth to get both Microsoft and Google to do honest competition, instead of backhanded methods.
How about enforcing direct control about Microsoft business? Not just another “low” fine in the ten to twenty billion range. Just stopping Microsoft, Apple, Google, Facebook and Amazon.
Enforcing AT&T to not enter any new business worked well. In consequence we got UNIX, C, open-source and documentation and finally the TCP/IP-stack of BSD, GNU and Linux. This had a positive effect for the complete computing industry and society. Reagan relaxed all rules, allowed AT&T to split up - the results were bad. No IT company had to fear any regulation afterwards, either politics didn’t want regulate or didn’t understand computing at all.
We don’t need this companies with too much power using incompatibility, vendor lock-in and storing away our data (the newest approach).
Chances for regulation Europe seem a little better? Less lobbyists and less tax money involved and people don’t believe in capitalism. Too late (10xtimes) and too little but at least they react.
About the Windows gaming machine, you can surely build one just for gaming; just never put any personal data on it, never use it for surfing or doing anything that is not gaming, never give it any unfiltered access to your LAN, assume it contains malicious software then put it on dedicated Ethernet port on the firewall, setting up rules that allow only very restricted storage sharing so that it can't read or write anywhere but directories set up to contain exclusively what one would want to be readable/writeable by that machine.
Yes, it's a nightmare, but I don't see alternatives, save for giving Windows the middle finger for good also wrt gaming, which might end up easier than expected given the recent development with Proton and DXVK.
The one thing you will need to do occasionally is experiment with different Wine distributions. This means you will need to right click on your game and select the distribution from a drop-down box. Exhausting, I know.
And yes there are also ways to stop data collection if you're concerned about giving that to them.
Alternatively, a Windows box locked down to LTSC.
Shouldn't it all, good or bad, be attributed to Satya Nadella at this point?
Or does the great CEO lack agency?
Even weirder, for some reason people have no issues blaming Google's sorry state directly on Sundar Pichai.
shrug
Enjoy!
I wonder since the initial "free" W10 upgrade, where the hell are the regulators? The browser selection window happen these years ago and seems they call job well done both for themselves and MS.
to help you stay engaged in conversations as you browse the web.
I wonder if the people who write this sort of BS-filled prose really believe in what they're writing. To be completely honest, the style almost sounds like LLM output.
Edge is pretty OK, good even compared to Firefox's speed issues and Chrome being Chrome.
I use different browsers for different things: let me fucking chose which browser to use.
I am currently wondering how easy it would be to build a "shim browser" that you can set as default but does not actually open the page, it only list the urls apps tried to open and lets you copy them to whichever browser you prefer.
Hamburger > Settings > Default Apps (in "General" at the bottom)
- Chrome
- Google (?)
- Safari
- Default browser app
I don't know what "google" is, but I don't even have chrome installed. If I click it, it sends me to the app store.
Then an update replaced my work.
It wasnt some 'uninstall program', but a multi-step process that involved registry editing.
I don't feel like I have control over Windows.
My friends would be like "do you want to play games?" and I'd be like "yeah hang on while I make some boot media so I can recover afterwards."
* O&O ShutUp10++ – Free antispy tool for Windows 10 and 11 | https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
* StevenBlack/hosts: Consolidating and extending hosts files from several well-curated sources. Optionally pick extensions for porn, social media, and other categories. | https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts
Not everyone can just jump to Linux when they work in a company.
However I still have Teams. And Teams occasionally opens up a webpage for oidc authentication. Unlike Slack this isn't my default browser (firefox), it's some embedded browser in teams, which has no access to my password store. It's terrible, but it's microsoft, what do you expect?
https://www.geoffchappell.com/notes/windows/archive/aard/ind...
> The code in question has become known widely as the AARD code, named after initials that are found within.
From your link, for those not in the know
They weren't logged-out, they just didn't notice that the link was opened in the wrong browser. Doesn't help that most browsers kind of all look the same.
However, we are power users and the big masses won't care about an ever increasing misalignment between the users' needs and Microsoft's. We cannot vote with our wallets, e.g. by using Linux instead. It won't matter.
What we could maybe do is contribute to projects like ReactOS[0] and make it easier for the layperson to migrate to it if modern Windows finally annoys them. Just food for thought.
Now, if only I could convince my dad, he might allow me trying to put it on my mom's computer as well... he insists on buying Microsoft Office for everyone under his roof so that I don't have an excuse to install LibreOffice
Sometimes it seems like old-ish white men is why we can't have nice things (I'm gonna be one of those :/)
I'm sorry, I LOVE building products and I LOVE design... but these fields have become grift central. No disrespect to folks in these fields, but remember how you came into this field talking about usability, cooperation, beautiful typography, color theory?
Bring those back.
Why not? You can absolutely call people out for using Nuremberg defense. Just because someone ordered you to intentionally mistreat people doesn't mean that you did not intentionally mistreat people.
But VSCode is okay, for now!
How about you don't decide that for everyone, Microsoft?
<rant>
This is the same BS that pushes 'conditional acces' based on what browser you happen to be using, or their idea of SSO where your console login also dictates all other logins... and it happens that you must use Edge. Turns out people don't give a shit if they have to pick an account more than once. That used to be a big point of friction on LanMan networks and when there was no Kerberos, but the same principles simply do not transfer to the web.
Just like Teams and all their other packaged nonsense (Intune): they are creating a fake ecosystem where usage isn't based on requirements or best tool for the job, but on 'what else happens to come with the package', making the UX worse for everyone. Entry-level admins and middlemen don't actually need (or want) to know how any of it works, delegate responsibility and defects to the vendor (Microsoft) and then essentially stall all local wants and needs because they cannot actually fulfil anything themselves.
Please understand that I understand the reasons behind Wayland, that the Wayland Devs are also behind X, and that X is an awful mess. I know and I believe, but Wayland is still the worst solution for the problem X created, in my humble view.
Please also accept that this is not a criticism of the awesomeness of Wayland/X devs. They are awesome. But they also were tired of X, and the result is, Wayland is undercomplex by at least a gut-factor of 10. And anything accessiibility-related is part of that.
Just like what happened before Firefox saved us from the Internet Explorer 6 monoculture.
I’ll need to reconsider Chrome or Firefox, which is a shame since I really liked some Edge’s features.
Why should microsoft respect anyone if they don't have the self respect to use literally any other OS? They keep getting away with this shit, because people keep letting them.
If you choose to use Windows then I have no pity for you.
Skype similarly gets worse and worse each update. They removed the ability to have multiple windows, they made links open in some kind of in-Skype browser I can’t find a setting a to turn off, they added a weather widget which is dumb.
Thankfully the weather widget exists, though, because their new in app browser doesn’t have any way to close the in app “window” it opens - no x, nowhere to click to close it. The only way I’ve found to close it is to click the weather widget which loads into the same space and that has an x to close it. I bet they’re getting tons of positive numbers about weather widget use from users just looking to close the shitty in app browser. I don’t know if it even counts as a dark pattern - I can’t tell if the Skype designers are this incompetent or actually hate the few users left still on that shitty platform. Maybe they’re purposely trying to get Microsoft to shut it down by making it worse every update?
Every second I use skype I want to get away from it, I just have to convince a handful of people to move as well, or I guess let them know they won’t be able to reach me through there and give up talking to them.
I noticed the outlook link handling thing on my personal machine and figured out how to turn it off but damn that was annoying. I’m not going to be annoyed into using edge - I won’t be tricked into it either. Every time this happens my willingness to go along with this gets smaller and smaller. I have a bunch of paid Microsoft licenses - windows, office365, etc. Once gaming off windows matures a little more I think its time to move away from this abusive shit.
“ Ultimately though, if this experience isn't right for you, you can turn off this feature the first time it launches in Microsoft Edge, and then in Outlook settings at any time after that. ”
Having said that, Microsoft seem to be entering another phase of baiting antitrust regulators.
And this is similar. There is no non-malicious use case for this setting that I can see.
Users don't pay attention to this stuff. And then when you have to go back and switch it to the correct behavior of using the default browser, they've buried the option in Outlook (Options > Advanced > Link Handling).
What kind of post-Orwellian shitfuckery is this? It really grinds my gears when a prompt puts words in your mouth (e.g. "Yes, please" or "No thanks, maybe later") but this reaches a new level by trying to reframe something as simple as wilfully ignoring a stated preference. It sounds like a modern car ad in that it's all about catering to you the "main character" writing your own story and presenting themselves as the facilitators of your perfect customised destiny.
But they're just trying to change your browser and hope you have enough to worry about that you won't notice and their metric will tick up.
On the "FedEx Accused of Largest Odometer Rollback Fraud" post, llimos says "When did we move to a "do whatever you think you can get away with" model of society?" [0].
Like light_hue_1 says in response, "Because the cost of fraud is far too low and it's now factored into business plans." That seems to be exactly what is happening here too. It's honestly disheartening.
Edge has another funny behavior where if you go to a Chrome extension page, it says you can install the extension. However, Chrome puts a web-page warning over the install button to block it and try to get you to install Chrome again.
It's clear companies value being your default browser.
I would recommend Fedora if you want the bleeding edge or Debian if you want a super stable system (Or NixOS stable, but NixOS is kind of hard to get started using).
The ads for Ubuntu Pro every time I open a terminal or update my computer aren't very welcoming either. If Ubuntu had a browser of their own, it would be as worse as Windows.
Tried again maybe 4 (?) years ago and have stuck with it - everything is pretty smooth for my purposes now. I do run into some random issues sometimes - like display drivers randomly resetting. That seems to be the biggest one.
I dislike Microsoft as much as the next person, but AFAICT this is about opening the link inside Outlook, in a sidepane:
> ... browser links from the Outlook app will open in Microsoft Edge by default, right alongside the email they’re from in the Microsoft Edge sidebar pane.
Also the title has been editorialized here, the original title describes what is actually happening:
> Outlook emails open next to web links in Microsoft Edge
You can also turn it off:
> Ultimately though, if this experience isn't right for you, you can turn off this feature the first time it launches in Microsoft Edge, and then in Outlook settings at any time after that.
Note on (a): some will argue a difference between Google advertising Chrome on Google’s property (something they could do when bootstrapping Chrome) and advertising Chrome on other people’s property (something they could not do). But here, Windows and Edge are Microsoft’s property, like it or not.
This isn't about advertising, it's about not following system defaults.
Side A is fighting side B, and therefore has to take these measures that harm bystander C. Nope, their fight, their problem, don't mess with my computer. I can happily say MS is wrong and Google is wrong
A few days ago on fresh windows install I couldnt watch netflix on ff/edge, but on chrome it worked. Player error.
I guess it was related to some missing drivers?
The links don't "open in Edge". That would suggest they launch the Edge app (instead of the default browser) and open the link in that. Instead the links open in a pane in Outlook that embeds Edge (presumably with the same settings and session context as the actual app). This also only affects the desktop Outlook app, not the far more modern and less clunky web version. I genuinely wonder how many HN users commenting on this story actually use desktop Outlook app or know someone who does and doesn't also use Edge (or their IT department's mandated out-of-date copy of Firefox ESR).
Now, bear in mind I'm saying this from a position that is in favor of splitting up Microsoft (and Google and maybe Apple). The feature is certainly useful if viewed in isolation, but it is in effect anti-competitive behavior because even if they wanted, they couldn't provide generic integration of your browser of choice the same way and the new behavior is opt-out rather than opt-in. It's bad, but let's not pretend it's worse and more deceitful than it truly is, just because you already don't like Microsoft (and presumably don't use their products).
This is probably a genuine usability improvement. It's also anti-competitive. Both of these things can be true at the same time.
There are not many alternatives, are there?
Lol. Euphemism for "we want to take away all choice from the user".
fucking lmao, linux since years ago don't care
> To provide a unique experience — at Microsoft, we strive to create the best customer experience across our products.
... they straight up admit using windows dominance to push other products.
That should fix it, right?
I use it for quite a long time now and it works with the search bar in the startmenu.
How painful is the Steam on Linux/Proton experience on average?
Its way better than 2,3 years ago and at this time is was already useable. Give it a try.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor....
Also definitely not in the best interest of users, which isn't the Satya Nadella way of operating, at least not as demonstrated in the developer tools side of the business.
Oh yes, good tsar, bad boyars.
Whenever Microsoft does something good, like open-sourcing some dev tool, it's because of Nadella. But he isn't responsible for the state of Windows. If only someone told him about the forced telemetry, forced updates, forced Microsoft account login, pushing Edge down users' throats, and so on... I'm sure he would fix all those problems, but sadly, he doesn't know. And it's just a coincidence that all this stuff intensified when he became the CEO.
I even saw a comment on HN saying that it's "Ballmer loyalists" who are truly at fault for the current state of Windows.
"Ultimately though, if this experience isn't right for you, you can turn off this feature the first time it launches in Microsoft Edge, and then in Outlook settings at any time after that."
Then what it the point of having system-wide settings in the first place?
Nobody wants Edge. Not now. Not ever.
Here's a graphic showing for the many uses for Edge.
This is as bad as Facebooks legendary QP abuse in metrics season that everyone used to win their PSC because we are talking about 300$ product here, Win11 PRO that is as crammed with adware - tiktok, instagram, office, onedrive, blah blah blah as in the worst days of steve balmer now.
I haven't touched Windows in a decade and don't miss a single thing. Every computer literate user should make the switch.
Years ago, I developed the muscle memory of copying links from outlook and pasting them into a browser rather than clicking on them directly. This was to avoid various "helpful" things Microsoft insists of doing. Now, that habit will pay off in spades.
The nice thing about the web versions of office is that they're powerless on the local machine.
I think apps should work in the general way an OS is designed. This change may lead to the same mobile app horrors where every app is also a browser that breaks common user flows.
And this reflects on other tech giants. They understand that they're in an era of near-zero regulation and can get away with seemingly anything.
For example, when you 'accidentally' click the help question mark instead of the exit cross, it will open Microsoft Edge with a search on Bing for "help with paint in windows".
I use Outlook for work only, and I segregate my browsing so that work browsing is done in Edge and personal is not. I could do (and have done) Chrome or Firefox profiles, but moving completely to Edge hasn't been terrible. (Hello vertical tab bar on my widescreen laptop).
I agree the pattern is bad if someone is using Outlook for their personal email, but I suspect the Venn diagram of people who use Outlook for personal email and people who install a different browser is probably small.
As always this should be an option!
On my Linux desktop and laptops I have my default browser set to firefox --profilemanager %u so that every link I click in Slack, Teams, Thunderbird etc I can select the correct profile to open it in.
The Windows Start menu is already so broken though.
Wow.
Edge makes a lot more sense as a smarter 365 client than it does as a browser, but it's not a bad browser either.
We're looking at building a monster Davinci Resolve workstation and we might use Linux. He certainly wants to.
But between our mobile devices (all iOS etc) and laptops -- we'd have a very mixed and heterogenous environment. I'm tired of maintaining all the different incompatibilities. I'm inclined to go all Apple, just to keep things clean.
But the Distrowatch situation showed me how much Linux missed its "year of the desktop" window, so many years ago, and how having optimal hardware experiences across form-factors doesn't include Linux as a default, or obvious, or user-friendly option.. the way it does for servers and cloud ops.
