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0 pointsamno2y ago0 comments

> Perhaps the negativity stems from the all the illegal, immoral, and damaging acts in this era.

Perhaps, but hate against Microsoft was not the point of the discussion. You are free to see them in whichever light you want, I just don't understand why you have to down-vote me or bring that into completely different discussion.

The question here was about the technical issues and their work on making software tick despite people abusing the API and producing buggy software. That has nothing to do with hate against Microsoft. To me that sounds like a whataboutism.

By the way, I personally don't even use Windows, I have been 100% Linux user since many years and have contributed to a GNU project, I am not some Microsoft fanboy as you might see me. But I see no value in defending a wrong, and I see the same behavior repeated in other communities. People abuse the API or don't read the documentation or just are plain idiots, and than accuse the developers for being malicious or stupid or whatever when things break. That behavior is bad for anyone, regardless if it is against Microsoft or some GNU project.

> In short people hated them for being shitty people who do shitty things and present leadership were important folks when these shitty things were done everyone just moved up a few rings.

I am sure people have many reasons they hate something or someone for, Microsoft included. There are people who passionately hate GNU, Linux, FSF, you name it. If you justify such behavior, it is your choice, but I am not interested in that discussion. I was talking about people abusing API and than blaming Microsoft for incompetence or deliberate evil, while the company obviously went to quite long efforts to make things work, even for buggy software. Microsoft may as well be evil or good for other reasons, but wasn't really the point of discussion.

> They aren't better people they just have better aligned incentives where illegality and immorality aren't profitable.

This is outright dangerous behavior on your part. You are transferring a behavior you have projected on a company over the entire group of people, all the thousands of people who work for Microsoft. To start with, they are all individuals, and as in every group there are good and bad characters among them. Also, history is against you, Microsoft was, and still is very profitable company. In the time we speak about, they were probably too profitable for its own best. For the second there are law and law enforcement officials to decide if they did illegal business or not.

Not to mention, that probably most of those who worked there back in 90's are probably retired or have changed the job by now. Also, to note, with thinking and statements like that one, you are denying people chance to develop as individuals and become better persons.

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michaelmrose2y ago

I didn't down vote you because down vote to disagree doesn't lead to optimum discussions a thought process I note with amusement that you don't share this idea.

> You are transferring a behavior you have projected on a company over the entire group of people

I specifically indicted the top leadership who were as now in a position of authority when immoral actions were taken and continued to work for the same org. This is a pretty clear and defensible position whereas you said.

> That has nothing to do with hate against Microsoft. To me that sounds like a whataboutism.

and also

> I remember the hostility in those years 95-2005 towards Microsoft. There is still some cult in some Internet communities where trashing anything developed by Microsoft is seen as some kind of expertise or something by usually self-proclaimed experts.

You compared people with a legitimate ax to grid to cultists and denigrated them to "self proclaimed experts" You are again the party committing the sin you project.

> There are people who passionately hate GNU, Linux,

These things aren't of neutral value. There are people who hate purple and Hitler but nobody thinks these things are the same.

> For the second there are law and law enforcement officials to decide if they did illegal business or not.

They actually were repeatedly found to have engaged in illegal behavior in a court of law and furthermore beyond multiple losses in a court of law ample information is available. Nobody with a brain thinks OJ was innocent or feels bound to disregard for instance the book where he describes the crime called "If I did it".

> Also, history is against you, Microsoft was, and still is very profitable company.

How is history against me? IBM literally helped the Nazis categorize their population so they could exterminate millions of people and the people who helped make those decisions didn't cease to exist in 1945 on indeed in 1955 and they were and are worth of critique even if it would be nonsensical now to impose that judgement on people who born decades after the war. We can both remember AND be reasonable.

History by definition is the things that happened. The fact that it tends to forgot the bad things done by people who later did well for themselves isn't "history" its a collective dementia a mental defect which keeps us making the same mistakes. An actual appreciation for history would suggest a commitment to objective memory not white washing.

> I have been 100% Linux user since many years and have contributed to a GNU project

This is the software equivalent of conspicuously announcing that you have a black friend. You needn't as nobody is suggesting you have insufficient credibility. What's happened is you wrote some fairly inflammatory next to something mundane that is reasonably considered and most people have ignored the mundane thing because you set your apple pie adjacent to a flaming bag of poo and when everyone mentioned the shit you have followed with a bunch of bad explanations for the poo and ill considered arguments so we are still talking about the smell of shit instead of eating pie together.

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