Ask HN: Why don't we stream websites like movies?

1 pointsshanebellone2y ago14 comments

Streaming data would allow for "browser-based applications" (e.g. single request/refresh-less web applications).

Why is the standard approach still transactional?

14 comments

Well, we can - that's how VNC and other protocols work. But it has a few disadvantages.

The first is latency. When you scroll or click, you want the response to happen quickly. If you're streaming the response you have to wait for at least one round trip before anything happens.

Secondly is bandwidth. For all the snark about bloated images and JS libraries, the web is extremely bandwidth light. A 1080p video is less so.

Thirdly, it was tried before. Opera Mini used to render pages before sending them out. It sort of worked for low powered devices but had a lot of quirks which I think gave the idea a bad name.

Finally, it would be impossible to block ads on a streamed website. See https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2023/07/the-future-of-the-web-is-vn...

shanebelloneOP2y ago

Let me clarify with some context. I've been tinkering with an infinite grid concept that consumes a streamed JSON feed (plus a sufficient data buffer to hide any delay from the user) to create and then display content with the help of a JS factory. All related media is then streamed to the browser and lazy loaded when needed. With this setup, you can traverse a database without refreshing the page by redrawing the window.

The only potential drawback I see is whether or not search crawlers could index content that's introduced via JS after a page load.

Edit: It also appears to protect from scraping... so I suspect it would conflict with indexability. That's a pretty big downside if true.

warrenm2y ago

That sounds like AJAX, no?

1 more reply

eimrine2y ago

Seems like you have described apps for snoop-phones. Those are a refresh-less, not device-agnostic browser apps with no tabs, no ability to change a font-size and limited ability to block ads.

shanebelloneOP2y ago

By snoop-phone, do you mean stalkerware? I have not heard this phrase before. Thanks in advance for the clarification.

eimrine2y ago

I am a big fan of RMS and I find promising to promote his way of naming things everywhere. Here are two recent links which explain this word choice.

[1] https://www.stallman.org/archives/2023-jul-oct.html#26_Septe...

[2] https://www.stallman.org/archives/2023-jul-oct.html#11_Septe...

1 more reply

warrenm2y ago

Why do you want to "stream" a website?

An average website is a couple megs (maybe?)

What advantage would "streaming" that have over just loading it?

How would you account for AJAXy sites/services?

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

14 comments

edent2y ago

Well, we can - that's how VNC and other protocols work. But it has a few disadvantages.

The first is latency. When you scroll or click, you want the response to happen quickly. If you're streaming the response you have to wait for at least one round trip before anything happens.

Secondly is bandwidth. For all the snark about bloated images and JS libraries, the web is extremely bandwidth light. A 1080p video is less so.

Thirdly, it was tried before. Opera Mini used to render pages before sending them out. It sort of worked for low powered devices but had a lot of quirks which I think gave the idea a bad name.

Finally, it would be impossible to block ads on a streamed website. See https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2023/07/the-future-of-the-web-is-vn...

shanebelloneOP2y ago

The only potential drawback I see is whether or not search crawlers could index content that's introduced via JS after a page load.

Edit: It also appears to protect from scraping... so I suspect it would conflict with indexability. That's a pretty big downside if true.

warrenm2y ago

That sounds like AJAX, no?

1 more reply

eimrine2y ago

Seems like you have described apps for snoop-phones. Those are a refresh-less, not device-agnostic browser apps with no tabs, no ability to change a font-size and limited ability to block ads.

shanebelloneOP2y ago

By snoop-phone, do you mean stalkerware? I have not heard this phrase before. Thanks in advance for the clarification.

eimrine2y ago

I am a big fan of RMS and I find promising to promote his way of naming things everywhere. Here are two recent links which explain this word choice.

[1] https://www.stallman.org/archives/2023-jul-oct.html#26_Septe...

[2] https://www.stallman.org/archives/2023-jul-oct.html#11_Septe...

1 more reply

warrenm2y ago

Why do you want to "stream" a website?

An average website is a couple megs (maybe?)

What advantage would "streaming" that have over just loading it?

How would you account for AJAXy sites/services?

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse