https://www.fastcompany.com/887990/starbucks-third-place-and...
Unfortunately, Kevin Johnson pushed hard to maximize profits and cut costs to the direct detriment of the original "3rd place" vision. His focus was on pushing toward smaller to go / drive thru locations. The logic is pretty obvious. Smaller places that sell more units are more profitable. Large comfy coffee shops where people sit sipping 1 coffee for hours aren't.
Laxman Narasimhan took over this year and it is unclear how that will impact things, but I doubt "being the 3rd place" is even a goal of Starbucks anymore.
During the pandemic it was refurbished. All the tables were removed, and the floor size of the shop was halved (I guess they have a big stockroom area or something now?! I can’t imagine what it’s used for.)
So there are now no tables, and only a small public area at the front, which I’d say is mostly taken up by people who’ve ordered online silently coming in and standing until their drinks arrive on the counter to pick up.
Not only can’t I sit there (which if I’m honest I hardly ever did), but it’s a much more unpleasant place to be in now.
Then COVID hit and everyone was bafflingly weird about transmission via surfaces (that was the WHO's stubborn take on it then) and whoosh, all of it gone.
Actually, the "cafés" with the most people on laptops around me are Starbucks.
I think I've been to two (urban) Starbucks in my life that were both big enough to even have the space to sit there not directly in front of the counter and also not in main train station with dozens of people in it. (And the 2nd ones urban-ness can be debated, it was in Mexico).
At least to me, in Europe, Starbucks is the epitome of McDonalds-but-for-coffee. Not great, but reliable, for a quick stop and not to linger.
Are they? The Wikipedia article says "examples of third places include churches, cafes, clubs, public libraries, gyms, bookstores"
Not sure I see any of these diminishing.
I'd rather say that people changed not the availability of public spaces. Everyone is more individualistic now, less social roles. See online dating. If I can sit at home and do "dating" with 0 effort then why should I go to the a cafe, club, gym etc? Otoh most people would say they explicitly don't want to get asked out randomly in a gym for example. So it's a self feeding loop.
Libraries have to constantly prove their relevancy. My town again had a huge city council fight to fund a new library district - it wasn't pretty.
There was an announcement last week that the largest gym in town is closing. My gym costs $100/month and that's one of the cheaper ones.
Many of the bookstores in town are still open, but the used bookstores are mostly long gone. A lot of them are turning to be more like gift shops with books. The only used bookstore left is also a coffee shop (another favorite).
One of the bigger outside seating, family-friendly (cringe for me) bars with food trucks and all that has been run through the mud lately because of their ties with an anti-woman, anti-gay church that rented (well had been given for free) space for worship there. It all gets messy.
And let's not forget Covid shut most all this down for a time and people changed their daily living patterns.
Helps for any third space left that this is a university town where PHD graduates stay as well as a training ground for athletes of all types (though leaning more on endurance athletes).
Then they complain about not knowing their community. Well, the church used to be the center of it. What's the center of it now? Something needs to be, and maybe it's something that can't be provided by government or business.
Every week I - play board games at a brewery - climb at a local climbing gym - play soccer on a public field - (usually) watch sports at a local bar
There are plenty of coffee shops and parks near me where I see people meeting.
For family reasons I've been inconveniently far from offices for a while, and have a really good employer that allowed WFH (long before covid), but I've gotten pretty convinced at least 2 days/week in-office is probably important for my mental health.
I'd encourage anyone to consider if full-time remote is working for you; maybe it is, and for me I think it did for a time, but most of us humans (even introverts) are social creatures, and unless you're good about finding a third place, or making friends elsewhere, work is still a really good place to do that.
How cool would it be to have a building with a kitchen and a sound system and huge screen and instruments and a gymnasium and occasional childcare? You could still have book clubs and speeches, but the book would not be a religious book, and the speeches could be about anything apolitical.
https://thecommon.place/p/thirdplacehomesteads
I'm definitely missing have a third place in my suburban life.
> churches, cafes, bars, clubs, public libraries, gyms, bookstores, makerspaces, stoops and parks
I would also mention that many planned or intentional communities explicitly include a third place -- a community building, clubhouse, country club, student union, retirement home lounges, etc.
You'll also find rec centers, YMCAs, JCCs, etc.
Don't give up on finding your "third place" just because you don't belong to a church or have a for-profit business in your area that wants you to hang out all day.
Me, I like sitting in the cafe at the local Barnes & Noble. I get to enjoy coffee, books, wifi, and a pleasant ambiance. And for the most part I can regulate how much I socialize with the people around me. I say "for the most part" because I'm such a regular there that I've gotten to know a lot of the employees and other regular visitors and have formed friendships with a number of those people, to the point that sometimes when I go in there I have a lot of people coming over to chit-chat. Which is OK in that they're people I enjoy talking to, but sometimes if I'm really trying to get some specific task done, it can be a little bit frustrating and I struggle with how to disengage from them without seeming overly rude. Still, on balance, I get a lot out of hanging out there.
Currently, for me, it's been hiking trails, quiet cafes, and bookstores where I can be in public, but generally avoid large crowds and if there are interactions they're most likely one on one.
In terms of "virtual third places" I'd probably say that HN is that for me. :-) I'm guessing I wouldn't be alone in that regard...
(crypto/metaverse nonsense)
https://stories.starbucks.com/stories/2022/starbucks-creatin...
The heyday of the coffee house was the turn of the nineteenth century when writers like Peter Altenberg, Alfred Polgar, Egon Friedell, Karl Kraus, Hermann Broch and Friedrich Torberg made them their preferred place of work and pleasure. Many famous artists, scientists, and politicians of the period such as Arthur Schnitzler, Stefan Zweig, Egon Schiele, Gustav Klimt, Adolf Loos, Theodor Herzl, and Alfred Adler.[15] Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Leon Trotsky and Josip Broz Tito were all living in Vienna in 1913, and they were constant coffee house patrons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viennese_coffee_house
Ottoman era coffeehouses democratized education across all stratums of society. Because individuals from a variety of backgrounds gathered in these coffeehouses, illiterate or low literacy people could sit alongside educated individuals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_coffeehouse
I’m not sure such places could exist in a world with smartphones and to-go drinks.
hence why we've so much misinformed citizenry.
Thanks for the links
