I think the GP's point was that's how it should be. If a company is going to -- for "legal reasons" -- not treat contractors the same way they treat employees, then they should be doing so not only in bad, exclusionary ways, but also in good ways, with the expected perks of being a contractor that FTEs don't get: freedom to set their own hours, work where they want, and subcontract out their work.

But no, companies like Google want to have their cake and eat it too: they want a class of workers where they can require of them more or less the exact same things that they require of their employees (and much more easily fire them), but can give them a lot less, and treat them like a second class.

That's entirely Google's choice. It does not have to be that way. But they've decided to create this two-class system for their own benefit, not for anyone else's.

Also consider that these people are probably often not contractors in the legal sense. They're likely W-2 employees of some sort of staffing agency, who are then placed at Google. Google pays the staffing agency, the staffing agency pays the "contractor" a salary (significantly less than what Google pays the staffing agency), and all is fine... legally, anyway.

As a contractor, you are an FTE... just for a different (almost always much worse) company.

And that arrangement exists solely so that the company whose work you're actually doing can fire you more easily or avoid legal liability.

That’s not legally a contractor then. As someone who has done contracting, both for software and in construction plus has hired them and had to be advised by lawyers around the legality of what makes or breaks a contractor…

If you are setting their hours, bossing them around and/or providing equipment they are not a contractor they are an employee. This is the law in 100% of the United States.

You cannot dictate those terms of a contractor.

I experienced something similar at a previous job. It was funny. I was working in a satellite office for an org based in a different country, and once in a while (minimum once a year) we'd be sent to HQ for a few weeks. Wrapping up projects, team coordination, whatever. So of course we'd eat together.

The team got a new manager when I joined, and he was told that our treatment was equal despite satellite office status because we were on the same teams coordinating on the same projects, but in different timezones.

Anyway, even though I was technically a FTE at the company, I didn't have the necessary prerequisites to pay for cafeteria food at FTE discounts. I was forced to pay contractor prices. A full extra $5 per meal. My manager was initially confused, then upset. Then we tried to talk with the cafeteria contracting company. They told him it was out of their control. So, we began investigating...eventually uncovering some internal "separate but equal" undocumented employment scheme were compensation, benefits, whatnot, unraveled into a weird caste discrimination system. The people that were pulling their weight were paid pennies while senior team members who were awaiting retirement just raked in the big bucks with benefits on contracts no longer offered, or offered through some backdoor deals before the company really expanded.

In the end, the lunch situation was solved by just stating that I was a FTE because I had the same color badge. It turns out the cashiers didn't even scan badges or anything, just asked you if you were internal and to show your badge.

But out of all the bullshit we uncovered, the food situation really broke his spirit the most.

This is like Intel with the apples and tea bags that green badges had to pay for.

I don't get it. Why would you be pissed if those were the rules of the company you were contracting to? As a contractor you get paid more than the regular employees because you take on a greater risk (such as being fired at any moment without any explanation) and you do whatever you're told. If you don't like it you can always look for another client. My point being you can't have your cake and eat it too. Does it suck sometimes? Yes. But such is contractor life.

Different treatment is a thing. But I couldn't imagine someone is ESA will say fruits and pizza are for employees only. Please leave the room while your coworkers eat.

When people here say "Europe is great", which part are they referring to?

I know from reliable sources that Airbus has the same problem.

Legally speaking, ESA is not in Europe and is not obliged to follow any nation's law.

I'd like to as in what ways is Europe great? From my narrow point of view, most if not all successful startups were founded outside Europe, most countries in Western Europe tend to be monolithic cultures where outsiders are made to feel like outsiders, and many European nations are socialist utopias (which means they take away a HUGE chunk of salary as tax).

(And I am asking this in a friendly tone, as a genuinely curious question, and not a combative one. These nuances get lost, so putting them down in words). Thanks.

I had the same two-caste system enforced in European office of US company. Legally it was a local company with parent in US. But anyway, "food is only for employees". Funny enough, even student who was there for 20 hours per week and did anything but work was allowed to eat.

This is a cultural thing.

No, that's a rationalization. It is because psychopaths are running the place. I have never heard of an employer paying benefit tax on pizzas, and if they did, surely they can bill the consulting firm in some circle if that is the case.

It's about 'demeaning' different badges, and an intern is inherently temporary, which is the T in 'TVC'.

Web search says that contrary to stereotypes, the problem was that they did NOT have contractor staffing agencies, and that as a result, they were not withholding taxes. This was resolved by bringing in a staffing agency.

A second problem was that they DID have ambiguous language in their employee handbooks, which meant that once temps were ruled employees, they became benefit-eligible, including in retroactively.

https://www.reuters.com/article/businesspropicks-us-findlaw-...

The cake was a lie ?

That's brutal.

Cake is terrible for you any ways.