Does anyone have experience getting back into tech/startups post-felony?
I have been looking for work since I was released for an assault charge in November 2022.
Previously I worked in Information Security as a SecOps Eng, most recently at Tinder. Between lack of recent job experience, and my record, I have been through a series of offer reneges, recruiters ghosting me, or going into HR resume black holes.
I am eager to get back into tech and feel like my old self adding value to a great team/org.
Anyone have leads on companies that are open to taking chances on good candidates with less than sparkling backgrounds?
NOTE: My offense was not computer/finance/fraud/selling drugs/physical violence/based at all.
Here is my linkedin:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/saunderscaleb/
Initially I worked in food service and on phpfreelancer. I spun that into consistent consulting work until a client offered a full time position (less than 15 people, no background checks).
As the years rolled by, I kept moving around. Eventually I tried at a large company(around 8 years ago) and nothing showed on the background check.
I do NOT recommend being upfront, unless there are no formal procedures in place and being honest actually helps. We are talking about your ability to feed and shelter yourself, so give up on the “honesty” thing. I have -never- been able to provide for myself after having been “honest”. [edit: after reading felonintexas let me update this. If someone point blank asks, tell them. Don’t volunteer this information. There is nothing to be gained]
Also, you are now an edge case. That means most advice doesn’t apply. This is both exciting and horribly anxiety driving at the same time. You will have to become comfortable blazing your own path and doing things others say is not possible.
Seriously, good luck. It is possible. It is amazing what you can do that everyone else thinks can’t be done.
No better advice has ever been given on HN, from minor things to major stuff. Never volunteer any information about yourself to anyone in the office beyond what is required to complete your job. Never say too much about previous roles and keep it very general.
A friend told me that the 2 important rules to surviving corporate environments is the following in no specific order.
1. Never lie to someone, and own what you did. Wordsmithing is a gray area but never lie, the reputation of not being truthful can follow you for decades.
2. Never volunteer information that isn't specifically asked for. This isn't a free pass to not provide critical info when your working on stuff like a project, but keep in mind that HR always can dig up info when they want to fire you or not offer you a job. Be honest and to the point, but don't volunteer info that can put you in a bad spot.
TLDR: if they don't ask, don't tell. But if they ask, be honest
so what are you going to do, tell them no? you won't get the job. tell the truth? you won't get the job. sue them? good luck. you'll need it and that does not get you the job and the settlement, if you were to win is years away, so there is no remedy. you start out combative, it's over.
there is frequently just no way to win since the ones paying are the ones not following the rules.
Don't tell when its not asked
If it’s just some mom and pop shop then I fully agree. Just tell them enough to fully and honestly answer their questions without opening additional causes for concern.
My Fraternity's cook, when I was in college, was a former fellon. He worked for us for a few years before he told me about his background.
I don't remember the details, but we had a conversation where he mentioned he had experience in IT. Eventually he very briefly mentioned some high level details about his criminal record when the conversation drifted around "so if you were making big bucks, why are you now cooking for us?"
I personally appreciate that he warned me about the consequences of the super-illegal (but "grey morality") thing he did. But, I must agree, it's best to keep things like a record quiet as long as possible.
I don't know if other fraternity brothers knew about his background. It seems like the kind of thing that would be kept quiet until someone started veering into the super-illegal (but "grey morality") area that got our cook in trouble.
I'm curious to know what he did given your description.
I can think of examples of the reverse: quasi-illegal, but quite immoral.
I re-binged "Last Week Tonight" a month ago. There is an episode on the prison system in the USA and the obstacles people face upon release. I remember one case where the person wrote on his job application as employed by the "State of <insert state>" while he was in prison. (it must be this episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pz3syET3DY).
I haven't been convicted of any crimes, so I don't have own experience. From people I know, they continued working in tech as contractors/freelancers, but for small fry (as big banks will be very thorough on your background (criminal/credit scoring) checks).
Doing small gigs for small companies where you don't handle personal/sensitive data can give you enough time to (as the parent suggests) have this 'forgotten'.
Would you consider moving to another country?
FINRA (Financial Industry Regulatory Authority) is the public face of the USA's "Securities and Exchange Commission". They write the rulebook on who gets to work in the industry (stockbrokers, investment bankers, and the like).
I recently underwent an extensive background check with my longtime employer and the case still showed up. Of course I had allocuted to it in advance and it was not a problem.
On the other hand we definitely hired people without speeding tickets who were likely deep agents for foreign states.
Launch HN: 70MillionJobs (YC S17) – Job board for people with criminal records - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14911467 - Aug 2017 (506 comments)
I link it here in case there might still be useful information or tips in those comments. If there are other related threads, we can list them here too.
Edit: also this (via jph's comment below):
Tell HN: I'm Afraid We're Shutting Down - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31598978 - June 2022 (353 comments)
After skimming through the threads, it looks like:
1. Bronson's business started out strong right before the pandemic and showed a lot of promise.
2. The pandemic nearly bankrupted it.
3. His business partially recovered after the pandemic, but he was unable to secure high enough wages during a period of high inflation and wage growth and so his employees kept leaving to find higher paid work elsewhere, which he sourly blamed on "The Great Resignation" and shut the whole thing down.
It was a bit of a sad story and arguably a loss of a great resource, but the positive flip side is that it suggests the economy was good enough for his workers to find better work independently rather than relying on a for-profit middleman who I would assume takes some kind of commission/fee out of the deal.
I did some terrible things when I was 19 that I won't go into details, but after working as a developer for a few years, served a six-year sentence from 2003-2009.
Upon release, I leveraged some old contacts to get a bit of contracting work. In time I found more contracting work, mostly working for smaller companies on a 1099 basis. (direct, not through a firm) In time a local contract turned into a job, and I've been with the company since. I'm the lead developer and own the entire stack, from the cloud to the front-end. I've made myself very valuable to them, and earn an income that's well over market (early on they offered me a percentage of profits as compensation)
I still continue to do contracting on a small basis (small companies tend to not bind you with onerous terms keeping you from doing so). Some of them I've even found on HN.
Anything involving a background check is a no-go. Most traditional employment situations, especially with "big" companies is a no-go. Sometimes you have to hustle a bit more, but honestly, I feel like owning your career with an entrepreneurial mindset is something everyone can benefit from.
Most of my clients have no idea about my past. A few have learned, but it didn't disqualify me. I was transparent when asked.
You got new coworkers? A lot of people start digging. I don't survive that digging.
Part of the problem is I went to prison for eight years. And I am just a computer nerd with no criminal background, I've never even had a parking ticket. I act like every other nerd in a dev environment. I love hardware, I'm very passionate about operating systems, making them run juust right.
Where it's a problem is when people look me up and are like, holy cow this is a hardened criminal! but I act... so... normal. and you wouldn't guess. it actually flips people out. it feels like I'm lying about a whole lot of things suddenly. I must be. I have to be. and it goes downhill from there. Whatever trust I earned gets taken away because people are judgmental and often not reasonable about that judgement.
I'm an ancient linkedin account, because I made it way back when linkedin first came out. it's an easy one to remember, lol.
You should know that if you also have a non-throwaway account, HN will unify your accounts in their backend records.
Yes, you should assume that the moderators will know, and you should be fine with them knowing, because you’re not using the multiple accounts to escape moderation, but rather for greater anonymity in the comment thread.
The rules that I follow, which I think are implicit in “use good judgment”:
1. Don’t vote on the same thing from multiple accounts.
2. Don’t participate in the same comment thread with multiple accounts (or if you do, only separate parts of the thread). Don’t create a fake impression of consensus or have your accounts interact with each other.
Those are probably the two big ones I would imagine.
Whether the accounts are actually tied together on the backend, I don’t know. I would suspect that they are not automatically linked, but could probably be linked if the moderators are investigating you for bad behavior (like voting on the same thing with multiple accounts).
Not the first time I've used a throwaway, and they've never merged my comments into my main account (only use throwaways for these types of discussions - I assume abusing it, such as ban evasion, would be a different story)
If you have evidence of the contrary, I would love to know.
Your experience in security operations is in demand, so that's a big plus for you. Seek work that you can do via external environments, meaning you don't need to be on-site, and don't need to have internal access. Ideally you can create an LLC so you can work for yourself.
A few examples... 1. Doing compliance-oriented security reviews via cloned systems (e.g. your customer provides you with a non-live copy). 2. Advising on process commitments (e.g. security SLAs, or UML/Visio/EA diagrams, or declarative configurations). 3. Effecting security-related project management task plans (e.g. pilots, proof of concepts, research adjuncts, resource estimations).
I was on a bad psychedelic trip, accompanied with some other issues at the time and ending up making threatening statements to a very high level official, but no battery occurred whatsoever. Thank goodness, or I would probably not be writing this message
Could/would you consider a sideways step to something less directly security based? For instance there might be data engineering roles that might suit.
Go west if you can. If you're on the east coast it's hell. The "liability" concerns are (IME) a pervasive east-coast racist myth from the 60s, but it's a real threat. The same justification was used to expand routine drug screening from forklift operators and truck drivers to keyboard jockeys. Equifax did drug testing of white-collar employees and did not hire criminals; so much for their liability and reputation following the worst data breach in history. It's all bullshit; both justifications are veiled cause to not hire blacks.
Mind your co-workers inclined to cyberstalk everyone around them and using your skeletons to raise PR hell to advance their own career. We've unfortunately thrown employees under the bus due to public outcry. Social "justice" in action! (What was the prison sentence for, if not justice...?)
Poster could say, “you don’t need to trust me, that’s the point of {insert product or service}”.
I had to focus on jobs with small companies that did no checks. There were so many times I declined jobs when I saw the background check just to avoid the shame. It's a waiting game until it falls off the threshold of places caring.
Eventually I got a job as a federal contractor working with semi sensitive metadata. I didn't need a clearance but had to get a public trust. Was still grilled by DIA trying to determine if i could be compromised. I am so glad I don't have to check the box anymore and have stayed out of trouble. 2 months of jail, 3 years of probation and another 10 years of shame. Good riddance. Today I make 170k as one of the main senior engineers. Good luck!
Ps some states have laws against asking if you're a felon. Cali and Colo might be 2. Look into remote jobs in those states after researching that.
If you've been convicted of anything in the last 10-15 years, every script-kiddie docket scraper will attribute the conviction to you.
This is only useful to people willing/able to compartmentalize their past under a deadname. Then applicants can mislead the employer into running background checks on a synthetic identity that comes back clean.
Subsequently, they did IT contract work behind the scenes with small contractors, kept in touch with his professional network, was super helpful to the rest of us, and after serious concerns and much debate, got back into his prior career with a new employer.
I don't even know how, because normally a felony would be a no-hire, but he pulled it off, likely because he was so helpful and giving to his professional network throughout this mess.
I've made companies a lot of money in my lifetime. I worked at places like exodus communications, netapp, netcom, @home. Some old names people prolly recognize. I specialize in storage, you want ceph? Ceph and I get along great. My last cluster was over 2 PB and it started out just 150TB.
It's simple in the end, I work for companies, solve their problems, make us all money. Should be simple right?
There's a good chance he's on HN and may pop into this thread.
That’s one hell of a bad night.
Actually much less likely in my locale, but if I'm out of town...
I've worked for 2-4 companies since then, depending on how you count acquisitions. I've even been trusted to write code that has touched a lot of financial transactions for customers. I doubt I would have been able to stay employed if I didn't have some dedicated advocates, mostly at the CTO level.
At my last (very small) company, my background never even came up. No check at all.
I've also spent a few years scraping by as an indie mobile developer with up to 15 apps in the different stores. With just a bit of a corporate shield, nobody even needs to know who you are.
In the software/IT field, I've met and even worked with plenty of people with criminal records. Multiple DUIs. Two that were convicted of vehicular manslaughter or something similar. Plenty of drug offenses.
You may want to check out Underdog Devs. You're likely too experienced for their mentee program but at one time they had a good list of tech companies willing to hire people with criminal records.
I experienced this. Due to various undiagnosed mental health issues I ended up with a serious record in the UK - a total of 15 charges, all computer related.
Due to the clear lack of malicious intent I didn't serve any time, but did get shackled with: 12 months suspended for 12 months; 10 years on the sex offenders register; 7 years sexual harm prevention order; and 5 years of something else I can't remember.
Every computer I touch - whilst in the UK - should have "monitoring" software installed, which pretty much ruled out any office job, let alone tech.
So after 2 failed suicide attempts and a stay in hospital I decided to completely reinvent myself and start from scratch. Time to hit the big reset button. Legally I have to reveal my convictions ahead of signing a contract in the UK. I got frog-marched out of several buildings by security after the interviews were terminated immediately when I revealed my convictions. I was basically unemployable in the UK and decided to leave and never return. Even after the 10 years is up I am still required to declare "spent convictions" for 5/6 years. This would take me close to my 50th birthday until I no longer have to say anything - 15 years from conviction date.
It took 1 year to "create" a new identity, including complete change of name, severing any connection with friends, and faking an employment history.
I moved abroad with my new identity and hoped for the best... and so far have had an incredibly successful career (post-conviction), and the one thing which has driven me is being good enough that IF my employer learns of my past, they will weigh up what I offer them vs. what I have done in my past.
I remain forever optimistic because _I have to_ . There is no other option.
What did you actually do, and what did they get you for?
> 5 years of something else I can't remember.
Just speaking for myself, I feel like I'd remember something significant like that.
Quite ironic really.
Due to the unusual nature of my case the judge excluded from all the usual mandatory courses during probation.
Convictions included "making of, "possession of", "distribution of" (a few others I can't remember) CSAM. A single P2P file ticks all three boxes.
People always assume the above includes "looking at" however that was not the case. I was interested in metadata and had absolutely no desire to see things which cannot be unseen.
The purpose for acquiring the data was not sexual in nature.
But with no context people always think the worst.
That much drama for a sentence the state doesn't consider worth serving stinks of CSAM.
https://jailstojobs.org/second-chance-employers-network/
https://www.centerforworkforceinclusion.org/our-work/formerl...
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Not sure if you have linkedin or anything but I'd like to stay connected
They do training and placements aimed at getting formerly incarcerated people into tech roles. I don't know if they work with folks like you with experience already but I'd say it's worth a try.
I used to work at Slack, which founded this program.
If you were arrested for robbery when you were younger perhaps because you had a drug addiction then that person should have a right to serve their time and change their ways later in life without the state holding and distributing that to any potential employer, practically ensuring that individual is unemployable for a mistake they made in their youth.
The reason I think this is not a good assumption to assume that someone will be a bad employee simply because they did something criminal in their past. There are terrible employees out there who don't break the law. If we're so concerned about employers hiring bad employees then state should instead build a centralised database of bad employees and their reason for termination at previous places of work. I'd argue this would be more effective if we're concerned an employer might hire a bad employee.
Secondly, making it difficult for those who have committed crimes to get back into the workforce increases their risk of reoffending. Having a good job and a nice life to lose is a great reason to not commit crimes while having nothing to live for is a great excuse to do whatever feels right in the moment.
Best of luck op. If I was an employer I'd consider you if you had the skills and seemed like you could do the job. I have no idea why your past would be relevant to your ability to work outside of select roles.
> After the regulations, lacking the ability to discern criminal history, employers became much less likely to call back any apparently black applicant. They seemed to treat all black applicants now as if they might have a criminal past.
“show us your linkedin”
A crime completely unrelated to my business may be very relevant to someone I already employ. I have a small business where people are working in relatively close quarters. I don’t want to put a rapist, stalker or some other kind of predator in there with the young woman I just hired. If there was ever a problem that would be on my conscience.
There are all sorts of others I don’t want to deal with either. This is a place where the people I bring in will be around my family, my employees and my customers. I have a responsibility to look out for each of them.
All that said, I wouldn’t hesitate to hire someone with a criminal background if the crime is irrelevant or I assess the risk is low. I don’t care if someone got busted with weed or that they got a DUI 10 years ago. I don’t care if it’s a one time crime related to a very specific set of circumstances that’s unlikely to ever repeat. Or a bar fight, drag racing or dozens of other dumb lapses in judgment that can result in serious charges. But I do care that I’m able to make an informed decision.
It used to be that you could pay your debt, and unless your crime was infamous, the "memory" of it would fade from society rather quickly. The internet and private databases have definitely hampered this facility and perhaps it should just be regulated with the same forthrightness we apply to credit decisions.
I have a relative who spent time in prison because she tried to kill her mother with an insulin injection who got out and got a job as a nurse working at a nursing home. She lied on her job application about felony convictions but only got found out when her mentally retarded sister showed up at the emergency room with an insulin overdose. It said in the paper she was stealing meds from the controlled substance locker and I believe it because she was stealing her grandson’s ADHD meds too.
I believe we should give felons a chance but the above case is one where not doing a background check looks like malpractice.
Nonetheless I agree with the point you seem to be making rhetorically, which is that the reason this is a failure is because one thing (criminal record) is being used as a proxy to measure another (job qualification).
And perhaps a larger point, given that things are the way they are, would be that our society cares only about punishment, not rehabilitation of individuals and not even (surprisingly) helping business.
I invite you to read this: https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/15/china-social-credit-sys...
I quote: "Contrary to common belief, the cities mainly target companies, not individuals. Nonetheless, legal representatives of a violating company are also included in the blacklists to prevent reoffending elsewhere or under a different company. Nationally, about 75 percent of entities targeted by the system end up on blacklists because of court orders they have ignored—the so-called judgment defaulters. The remaining companies are typically collared for severe marketplace violations—for instance, for food safety infringements, environmental damage, or wage arrears. But much of these cities’ day-to-day use of the SCS is banal thanks to the system’s fragmentation and inflation of results."
The gist of it is that it was a grading system for businesses, to distinguish the bad payers, often bankrupts people restarting business over and over. This is ofc not great because we would need a "start over" mindset like in the US, but stop reading buzzfeed-like news about this thing, it's a bit cringe.
We are oppressed maybe, but not THAT good at it. Most of the censorship in China is self inflicted and networked, from the bottom, think "shhh don't say that you'll be in trouble" or "I prefer not to answer that question, wink wink". No need for complicated expensive systems diverting taxpayer money away from the pockets of our dear leaders, when a simple 2-hour interview of one person at the police station can silence an entire social graph of hundreds of people for months :)
Many government functions handle data that the private sector probably shouldn't, and you can't easily choose other govenment providers.
Then, to do a background check, you just input those job categories and an applicants ID info and get back a "no adverse events" result, or otherwise get back info on only crimes relevant to the categories specified. My understanding is that is basically how some EU countries do it.
I think companies would welcome this sort of standardization (including how many years it would take for different adverse events to fall off your record) as it would help insulate them from claims of bias.
This shouldn't be controversial at all and I think your take is 100% correct wrt exceptions (gov work, access to children etc). The very "Once a felon always a felon" thing going on in the united states is a secret life long sentence that completely defeats the idea of redemption.
Now because that freedom of association, freedom to chose who you do business with does not exist, we think this is reasonable.
However, it is not. I own a business. I should not be required to hire anyone I do not want to. Full stop!
And it doesn't have to be a race card thing, Say I hate the Iraq war. Say I would like to never hire any veteran who contributed to the deaths of over 1 million Iraqi Citizens. Or say I worked with Iraq war veterans in the past and I hate their military attitude. I am not allowed to do so. If I bought a company, I would want to fire all veterans. No, you are not allowed to do so.
The better, faster and easier solution is a path to quick expungement, this also has the added bonus of offering people an incentive to no re-offend.
IMO once you have completed all active punishment (ie you are no longer on parole or probation) your record should be sealed.
>>If we're so concerned about employers hiring bad employees then state should instead build a centralised database of bad employees and their reason for termination at previous places of work
That would actually be illegal under most state laws as most State's have Anti-Black List laws to prohibit such lists from being created.
Um, that "incentive" is called not going to jail. Or more generally, behaving like a moral citizen. Just like for everybody else, ex-convict or not.
Just because you've been convicted before doesn't mean morals don't apply to you and you need extra candy to behave well. These kinds of arguments are making the case weaker to hire fellons, not stronger.
He was out of prison for a similar thing.
Guess what? There was no background check for the hire nor any vetting of the company.
Guess who found him out?
If, as I understand is the case in the USA, employers are allowed to retrieve the potential criminal record of prospective employees after they have served their sentence, that's where one could argue the employer could be criminally liable for future wrongdoing by their employee.
You’d be surprised at how many jobs felons can’t have.
Most jobs that need licensing (e.g.,electrician, plumber, even bartender, and many more).
As well as security, jobs which relate to firearms and many more.
EDIT: for clarity, legally - there are many jobs felons are prohibited from being employed as. So employers have the burden to ensure they only hire legally eligible employees (not hire a felon when not allowed). As such, background checks are how they ensure this.
How is that relevant?
I say this because my experience of hiring and employing people really shifted my opinion in favor of maximum diligence unfortunately.
I don’t want to hire or work with anyone who has ever at any point in their life used violence to attempt to solve problems.
I am fine with a percentage of human beings being blacklisted permanently from access to much of society. Violence has no place in our world.
I won’t even hire former cops. It is, unfortunately, illegal in the US to explicitly avoid hiring ex-military.
I don’t really care about whether or not they have “changed their ways” or “grown as a person” - there are lots of people out there to choose from who have never been violent.
In many environments violence is a part of life and necessary for survival.
One hypothetical scenario of millions:
You live and grow up in a high-crime area. Someone attacks you, a family member, etc. You defend yourself to protect your own life or that of a loved one. A cellphone video records the end of the encounter where you appear to be the aggressor.
You get an assault charge.
You work your ass off, beat a variety of odds, and make something of yourself. Many years later you’re passed over for a position simply because you came from an environment the person doing the hiring can’t possibly fathom. A person who has clearly never been in the position of “it’s me/my wife/my child or them”.
Same for ex-military. Are you aware that the United States military is often considered to be the “only way out” for a substantial portion of the enlisted? That something like 90% of military roles are non-combat related?
I’m not a violent person either but this is an extremely naive, judgmental, and downright discriminatory position.
White collar crime/theft and the indirect killing of people through occupational risks (ex black lung from mining), class traitorism (ex being a cop) is a much greater kind of bad than someone who got in a fight or something.
Ever? A 50-year old who punched a bully when he was cornered at 20 years old, 30 years ago? Not saying that's great behavior, but perhaps understandable after having been cornered.
Or at 15? 10? 5? Somebody who at 3 years old kicked their older brother of 6 with a bunch of legos? Not going to hire that maniac? Do you yourself have a job?
Better re-think that one.
If I hire a convicted felon with a track record of assault and they end up assaulting another employee or customer, I’d feel responsible.
The victim would probably hold me legally responsible.
I’d feel more comfortable hiring someone with a 100% track record of never having been convicted of assault.
If you disagree, is there any number of assault convictions that would change your mind? Or do you mentally wipe the slate clean no matter what?
There's also the negative case of someone who has assaulted someone but was never caught, you can't safely eliminate that because there's no record of it.
Assault act of causing someone to reasonably fear imminent harm, what most people think of Assault they actually mean what the law calls battery which is actually causing physical harm.
Further I am not sure why we are focusing on Assault or battery, the OP said that was not the charge they were convicted of, and a Felony by definition is any crime punishable by more than 1 year of imprisonment which given the "Tough on crime" provision starting in the 90 makes a HUGE number if non-violent offenses felonies, as something a simple a playing your music too loud could be in some circumstances classified as a felony (often charged as " Nuisances" which is many states is a low level felony)
Most people have "felon" associated with violent crime, or serious crime, but unfortunately in our over criminalized society most people commit as many as 3 felonies a day not even knowing it.
I won't say that it's almost tautological, but it's pretty close.
If you can surpass conviction and probation, you are remarkably self-disciplined. Probation conditions are much more problematic than an actual job, and the penalty for failure is going back to jail.
A person who can pass that kind of environment is absolutely the kind of person you want working for you.
A blanket law that forces all companies to hire employees without considering information they think is important is really inefficient. Just recently, governments and people were complaining that rideshare companies weren't being exclusive enough! If you think new laws will find the optimal policy for all companies, you are incorrect!
It's also overreaching. Freedom of association is important. The owner of a Jewish deli shouldn't be compelled to hire a formerly convicted neo-Nazi.
Who cares if they were convicted? That detail is shoehorned in here to make it sound like a good example when it isn't. Neo-nazis are not a protected class, and so the deli owner would be entirely within their rights to not hire someone on that basis, with or without a conviction on their criminal record.
And honestly how often do they get convicted of say, a hate crime, that might show up on a background check compared to the number of neo-nazis in the country with clean records, or who get acquitted, etc.?
If it is a matter of survival, I'd pick this route. You can easily make 6 figures or even 7 figures within a few years. You do not need to find a full-time job at a fancy company.
Long story short, nobody needs to know your past as long as you know how to fix computers and handle network systems.
start a private LLC and subcontract the work to yourself
Just being self-employed is usually enough. I've been SE for decades (no record) and my only background checks were by private agencies for developmentally disabled adults. These were existing clients who later put me on the payroll - and that's when they checked me out. But not when I was 1099.
(I've run my own 1-man software business since 2005. But I realize it isn't for everyone.)
I agree, start "working in public" and networking a bit on places like Twitter. Those things aren't really my cup-of-tea, but what I love is that the idea of pseudonymity is becoming more accepted. In the IT world, a lot of people don't care much about you except your ability to produce work.
That is one approach. I kept all my code proprietary. Depends on your goals and personality.
I can't think of them, right offhand, but I'll bet they pipe in.
I'd suggest making the title a wee bit "pithier," to make sure they understand it.
For example: "I Have a Felony, and it is Making it Difficult to Find Work."
I have known many folks with felony records that have found work, but it tends to be challenging. Stubbornness and not reacting to the dicks is an asset.
I sincerely wish you luck.
Checkr is a commonly used background-check tool, especially in tech, that allows for those with criminal histories to provide context for what's on their record [2], I'm curious if you've encountered it specifically.
To your post about being ghosted, that seems unfortunately to be a common theme in this period of staff contraction that may not be limited to those with criminal records [3], but reneged offers is a bummer, I'm sorry that's happened to you. There's a theme of "owning the narrative" among some formerly incarcerated people that may be worth considering.
Last, a useful resource on humanizing language for those of us without criminal justice histories [5].
[1] https://centerforjustice.columbia.edu/justicethroughcode
[3] https://medium.com/@k0ryk/everyones-getting-ghosted-dbf0fbaf...
[4] https://fortunesociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/final-...
Sysadmin/Linux with a little Dev and a little ops
I tell the truth; tell them I’m in recovery and it’s a big part of my life (which is true). Nowadays everyone has a friend/brother/sister/uncle/parent where they’ve seen the horrors of addiction (and pop culture is educating people as well) and most people see it (recovery) as a positive thing. Leadership/managers either already know or learn quickly that I’m not going to drink too much at a work event and embarrass them nor will I ever not be able to work due to a hangover. I’ve been turned away from several jobs with my honesty but welcomed at others, from startups to national corporations.
With my record, I have to look at it as a “meant to be” sorta thing. If they turn me away after I share my past and what it looks like now, it just wasn’t the right place for me and I have to keep looking.
My wife had a misdemeanor that was eventually expunged and this seems to work.
In general I don't think an employer can ask about or consider a prior conviction until after they've made a conditional offer.
You should talk to an employment lawyer. You could potentially get a cash settlement, force them to consider your application, or an injunction that would force them to treat future applicants better. Could also file a complaint with the state and they will investigate on your behalf. Good lawyer can advise you of options though.
My long time acquaintance got out after a number of years, in his late 20s after committing a crime at 19, was intelligent and knew computer science extremely well after teaching himself in prison and after he picked up projects on github and grinded leetcode.
He did gig work, but that wasn't sustainable so in the end he bought someone's identity and lies on resumes and background checks. He can obviously hold no job that does serious background checks. He has a high school education.
Hope you find employment without having to resort to this, but that's a harsh reality.
In my metropolitan area there is a significant network of employment agencies. Many are faith-based and many work with the homeless and disadvantaged, and it is not unusual for some to cater to ex-cons and felons. They will not advertise this stuff publicly, so you will need to get referrals and inside information on how to find them, but once you hook up with such an agency, your chances should improve drastically. Many of them will counsel you on how to approach applications and interviews, they will broker connections with employers who can overlook such a record, and they really know the communities they work in.
Do not discount the power of your State agencies to help you as well, such as through Vocational Rehab programs.
One drawback I've found to working with these folks is that they're geared to low-income jobs, manual labor, call centers and food service type stuff. They're not well-equipped to handle professionals in industries like IT, but you can certainly help them adapt, and recognize that we're worthy of assistance too. The more professional ex-felons who approach them, the better equipped they will be to serve people like us.
26 years ago, they parked me in a homeless shelter with a newspaper and a public phone to apply for jobs. Not even a typewriter to create a résumé. It was a joke. When I was finally motivated and qualified, I found the right agencies and the right assistance, and it made all the difference in the world.
Only way I could collect unemployment was if I was working every week to find a new job and putting out applications, and they were helping me. but no one wants to touch me, through those channels. not so far.
I see a lot of people who got laid off / fired who ended up with the dreaded "Resume Gap", and it's very common to spin up your own consulting/contracting firm. That way - you can claim you were self-employed, and there's no obvious resume gap.
I'm sure it doesn't fool all the recruiters, but it's got to fool a lot of them who are lazy and suck at recruiting.
I can't do it anymore. I can't try anymore. I've tried for years and years and I can't handle this rejection. I can't handle knowing at the drop of a hat I'm gonna lose my job again the moment they find out. I just can't do this anymore. I really can't. I can't be this good, this friendly to people, this competent, and still judged so badly from something that happened while I was on drugs 14 years ago. I've been clean for as many years. It doesn't matter. I've tried explaining, doesn't matter. I've treid playing dumb and hoping the background check won't find it. I've relied on the right-to-be-forgotten laws and the fair credit reporting act-- billion dollar companies still refuse to follow the procedure. they didn't get me any chance to dispute what they found, even when they said they would. And no, suing them doesn't work. No one will take the case and I aint got money for it so no.
there are no solutions. I'm paid to find solutions to any problem... and I have none. I can find none. :(
People judge harsh these days. Good luck, you need it. Even if you get a job, it's a hell of a thing to have a coworker you've worked with for 18 months walk up to you with a printout of your case, saying, is this you? and then he pretends it didn't bother him.
oh it bothered him.
they walked me out not long after that for something seemingly unrelated. that job lasted exactly 2 years.
My next, I got walked out at just 4 months for "defacing company property" yeah I wrote my name on my custom chair they ordered for me. I was financially responsible for that chair, I know because I built the inventory system to keep track of the serial numbers. Do you think this mattered? Hell no. Do you think people cared to reason? nope. they kept a straight face even, said that I was lucky they weren't calling the cops.
well joke was sort of on them. my unemployment claim went before a magistrate and he took one look and said to them, did you get him a chance to wipe it off? and I'm like "I had multiple sovants on hand that would have worked. they never even gave me a chance." and they were like "...." and that was it. ruled in my favor.
but how it left me. it just devestated me. I brought my a game to that job. I grew that company from 29 employees to 165. I had microsoft hybrid local/cloud running and the dell laptops would auto provision all the user had to do was login with their username and password. it all unfolded, installed everything they needed. a perfect image. it was done in 20 minutes. it was amazing, microsoft really has some powerful tools to help IT get new employees working fast.
it just sucks. it sucks more than anything. it's unfair, sure. the world is unfair. but it is beyond unfair. and it has cost me everything ... this latest one just... sent me into a spiral. and I just gave up. I lost all my possessions, a lifetime of them. I just walked. how can I care anymore?
HR depts hire these companies that break out the digital proctoscope, and they do things like find your social media accounts. Also, if you piss someone off, they can rat you, and you can be fired with cause.
Your plan sounded perfect except for the complete infeasibility of it. Countries don't let felons from other countries immigrate.
I have an LLC. I'm a published author, but sales are nothing I could live off of.
I'm not sure I have what it takes to bootstrap a b2b. It's why I like working with others. I literally enjoy helping other people solve problems. I was an SRE two positions ago and I took on the IT role for an extra 5k/year. and I happily answered calls to change peoples passwords, because it was a small company. and everyone really respected each other. everyone was grateful. I had cards all over my wall that people sent me, thank you cards. covering half of it by the end. this is what I need in life, all I need. I'm old enough now to know the difference between wants and needs.
I'll still have a social security number that won't change, and I'll have an alias and anyone who really wants to find my info will find it even with a name change.
What a name change does is get me off a simple google search. which isn't legal, fair credit reporting act defines very clearly what you are and are not allowed to do to investigate potential employees.
and yet, do you really think I can start any business relationship by telling someone they can't do things like look me up? It's effectively what that is, and it's unreasonable.
The industry is still stuck in a "no one knows what to do about this problem"
can't stop people from googling you. but I can change my name ... but it's not going to stop the ones who look futher. and so far, all of them have.
A felony record, in the context of passing a tech background check, is the following:
Does the word 'felony' appear on your record? It's all just string matching.
Felony misdemeanor? I'm a felon.
Felony misdemeanor as a juvenile? I'm a felon.
Felony for Adult Bad Things? Not me, but maybe someone else.
Either way, you're done for 7 years. I still wait to tell friends and family until after the background check passes... 15 years later.
Most background checks (basically all) though are local to the states you list, so if you say you've only ever lived in Texas, but your conviction was in Oregon, I think you'd still pass as long as it wasn't a federal level conviction. I know this because I've scrutinized every single background check I've ever had.
The experience will jade you and will leave a permanent bad taste in your mouth. Don't forget they need software developers in Latin America and Europe.
There are a lot of small companies out there that don't do background checks, and some slightly larger companies who will overlook your past.
I stayed self-employed after my wife's disabilities started impacting my schedule. By the time my wife moved on, I had reached the ageism stage of my career.
I'm still self-employed. Being uninsured sucks but the schedule is pretty okay.
Consulting is an excellent other option as well. Plenty of work in the security field if you get your name out there. Independent experts on small limited projects. Especially if you're doing things like external pen tests.
yes. yes it was. and I just can't do that anymore. that isn't living, it's dying.
If you have something to eat and a working pc and stable internet connection you can make the way. That's a hard lessons learnt in startup years. It's the same
So you could narrow your searches down using "Fair chance"
Others like Glassdoor just use "People with a criminal record are encouraged to apply"
Now, whether those employers really mean it, or if it's a legal requirement they check that box, I'm not sure.
If you want a chance at a job - apply at CoalitionTechnologies.com
I believe he ended up being a security consultant or something. So it’s possible.
I think you might find work with smaller companies. HR at most big company will often deny, ignore or ghost you once they pull the background check. Maybe they will look the other way? But likely need to know a few hiring managers that would take the risk of hiring a convicted felon.
Personally, I do know having a felony on record will exclude you from any financial related firms. But honestly, you are not missing out.
If it's old or minor, I don't think I'd care as a hiring manager. It's annoying in some regulated industries since felony complicates checkbox compliance, but in "normal" industries enh.
This is not something I'm experienced in though. Best of luck.
I suspect the nature of your offense would make it harder or impossible, but the public sector is a weird place- they often have very specific scoring criteria that they must follow for hiring decisions and if criminal record is not part of it they really will not consider it (at least that is my interpretation of what one of my friends said.)
https://www-kode24-no.translate.goog/artikkel/david-toska-ko...
Defending yourself against a group of 5 assailants who assault you and appear intent on causing you great bodily harm, even if battery to you is stopped, no one was injured, and you use no force in excess of defense, in the current political environment, it will result in a maliciously prosecuted assault charge if they happen to be PoC and you happen to be a white man leading to:
- Stress and uncertainty for months to years
- Legal costs between $15k and $50k
- Loss of rental housing
- Moving costs, say $6k
- An inability to be hired by a major corporation because of background checks until after the charge is expunged (another $5k in legal costs and many more months of uncertainty)
---
I hold the Scandinavian view, that after 20 years, a person can be very different, especially if they had a rough childhood. The US is organized around punitive prosecution and maximizing carceral suffering, has a net average problem with over-prosecuting PoC, a very high incarceration rate, over-prosecuting some crimes that aren't there, and not prosecuting thieves and vandals enough. There also isn't enough community engagement, de-escalation intervention, counseling, and diversion from the school-to-prison pipeline to care about people on a troubled path.
I was relieved to see your charges are basically nothing compared to his. You'll be fine but be up front with recruiters about your felony. For the right candidate, they'll work around it.
I'm in an EU country and it's really rare to see a company do any background checks at all. Be honest, if/when you're asked about it of course - but just from personal anecdotal experience, it's rare that somebody even bothers to ask. (this might vary of course from country to country)
another country is very unlikely to let someone immigrate (or even visit) with a criminal record
I have a squeaky clean record, was driving an 8 year old toyota camry at the time, and by all accounts appeared as the most boring non-offensive person out there trying to cross the Vancouver border with my mom and sister (who were both US citizens by then too, so it isn’t like I was transporting non-citizens across the border) for a daytrip during a weekend. And CBP went on a 10-15 mins long line of questioning about what exactly I do for work (was in a somewhat niche area of MSFT at the time, so it isn’t like they would be suspicious of the employer being shady or anything like that, but also it was really difficult to explain exactly what i do for work to someone who sounded like they just discovered the existence of software engineering and have zero idea what any of it is). Only after that got cleared up and answering a few more strangely personal questions (from me, as well from my mom and sister), they let me in. For context, they were visiting me from GA, and I was the driver. The entire process took close to 20 mins. And something similar happened at least every other time I tried to cross the WA-Vancouver border.
In contrast, crossing the border back into the US was as smooth and efficient as I could have possibly imagined every single time. Despite my passengers occasionally creating non-happy-path situations for crossing the border. On that same trip I mentioned above, my mom decided to buy some really nice looking grapes and bring them back home (which was not known to me at the time). The US officer, as we were crossing the border back into the US, asked if we were bringing anything back. My mom honestly said “oh, nothing, except these grapes.” Unknown to us, those grapes were considered invasive/harmful species that weren’t allowed to be brought into the US. All that did was adding less than an extra minute to our trip, because the border officer just calmly explained to us the situation, profusely apologized, and said that our options were to either eat the grapes or watch as he throws them away into a trash can in front of us. The whole experience from start to finish took less than 2 minutes.
P.S. Major apologies for going on a massive side-tangent. All I wanted to say was that, yeah, with any sort of a criminal record (even as minor as a misdemeanor), a lot of international options are almost instantly axed at the visa stage. Way before even getting to the “will the employer be ok with my criminal record” stage.
Not the same but I was sacked during a probation period because I refused to give my proof of ID details a 5th time to the HR, the same 3 pieces requested multiple times or lost. I told them to reuse those I uploaded a day or two earlier.
HR dismissed me after a single warning to give them by my line manager, and in dismissal point blank refused to say why (in probation in the UK they have no legal requirement to tell you). Obviously I cannot say HR at xyz company were incompetent and I was the scape goat.
What I did say in my next interview was what I learnt during my probation there, they needed somebody with more SQL/database skills. I had them as a senior developer, but I deliberately pushed back as it wasn't what I was hired for. In the interview I simply said I was "let go because I believe they wanted somebody more database oriented and that was not what I wanted to do" with the emphasis I was being hired at the new place as a developer not as a database specialist. That was therefore not my error and it's justifiable to want to do work you were hired for, they didn't give me an actual dismissal reason, and based on what I was told day to day could have been true.
It also helped that I completed a 2 month project (for the sacked from place) without any flaws in 3 weeks (yes they were average developers there at best).
The point being, distract and do not linger, use the disadvantage and stuff that is positive to your advantage, make no excuses because that validates their (any) misconception.
I would:
- Prep and learn as many responses for awkward questions that you can think of.
- Find relatable ways to justify the offence, but make sure you show it's been apologised for (it broke the law but anybody could fall into that trap). This may not be 100% coverable because perhaps it's unrelatable, but people wouldn't invite you to interview unless they thought you had or can redeem yourself. So for example, you mentioned drugs, I've not done them but I have done stupid things when drunk, so I can at least understand your position/state of mind.
- Find ways to (importantly, indirectly, don't dodge because being evasive will work against you) bring the topic back to accomplishments at the previous role (the one you were let go from). E.g 'I apologised to the official and the staff I worked with before I left, although shocked they thanked me for my hard work on xyz (a project that I believe went live with great success a month later)".
In the last point you leave that open because it's a distraction point, it's not you saying "despite what happened, I did loads of good work like xyz" (which is misconception validation, direct topic changing -evasive- and now requires further detail on your part which blocks them talking -they may feel they're not getting answers).
I did this approach on my follow up interview and got the position.
At the end of the day it's about owning the mistake, learning and no longer apologising (because perhaps you have already done that).
It ultimately also gives you real life street cred as a secops guy, i.e. you've can relate to a criminal element, although I'm uncertain if you could turn that into a positive - if you found out new stuff behind bars well that's a win - that could at least be an anecdote based on how relaxed/personable the interviewers are (e.g. if one tries to put you at ease by saying they did time).
Final point, don't rely on recruiters, use LinkedIn directly. Recruiters have a pool of people you join who they often field one at a time, you will be in a queue possibly at the back because the recruiter wants the best chance at getting a win with the least hassle when fighting against candidates from other recruiters. Unless you have a stand out skill they may secretly bias against you and there's no way of knowing.
P.s. also refer to yourself as ex-felon, it's reinforcing that you're over it.
P.p.s somebody down voted me, don't know why since if anybody has ever been sacked for refusing to give ID you should know you're basically shooting yourself in the head if the word gets between HR departments that you won't identify yourself during reference checking, potentially career killing.
That's no way to survive a career (as you found out). That's the kind of thing you use to build team camaraderie, after the 3rd time or so start posting about it in the team chat, if you're in an office put up a little sign saying "it has been ## days since I was asked for my ID", play along with any jokes about it, that sort of thing. And also politely ask your manager what's going on, and if that's normal, and send a polite email to the HR manager.
I get that it's a nuisance, but surely it couldn't have been more than a few minutes out of your day every time (and getting faster with repetition, right?).
> (yes they were average developers there at best)
Sour grapes?
I "look good on paper" and recruiters ghost me too.
I would look at smaller startups that might make it easy to just escalate to the CEO if you have a good explanation, rather than having an HR department stop you right away.
EDIT: I thought assault meant physical violence, but not harm while battery meant harm. I was wrong I guess?
"The legal definition of assault is an intentional act that gives another person reasonable fear that they'll be physically harmed or offensively touched. No physical contact or injury has to actually occur, but the accused person must have intentionally acted in a way to cause that fear."
https://vindicatelaw.com/assault-vs-battery-are-they-the-sam...
Physical violence is battery.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/assault_and_battery
"Assault refers to the wrong act of causing someone to reasonably fear imminent harm. This means that the fear must be something a reasonable person would foresee as threatening to them. Battery refers to the actual wrong act of physically harming someone."
