I'm certain they have the best legal team that money can buy, but I'm equally certain that that legal team is under the sort of pressure that happens when a multinational corporation is looking at the prospect of possibly losing billions of dollars in zero-effort recurring profit. I also think these sort of behaviors are damaging their brand, which is certainly Apple's most valuable asset - which is to say that I think they're acting in an irrational way, because of the amount of money at stake.
I think you're vastly overestimating how much people outside of the HN crowd cares... or even knows what you're talking about for that matter.
The right term for this is malicious compliance.
I have a lot of Apple kit, and the Vision Pro is hugely tempting. Unfortunately, Apples’ shenanigans the past few years, starting with “we will scan all pictures you want to send to iCloud on your phone” which signalled to me that Apple feels fine about unilaterally altering our agreement whenever they feel like, have increasingly soured me on their brand to the point where we as a household and as a business were discussing to stop purchasing new Apple products and services. Their recent actions, both in terms of their Epic situation as well as their reaction to these new EU regulations, have cemented that decision.
Unlike every other cloud photo service, Apple invited community discussion before implementing it. Apple heard the feedback and didn't implement it, but people still criticise Apple as if they did. What should I conclude from this? That criticism of Apple is frequently false, disingenuous and devoid of context?
Pretty much every other comparable mainstream ecosystem has most of the same vices. Most are arguably worse in my opinion. Epic still haven't satisfactorily explained why they haven't pursued Sony or Nintendo with the same arguments.
Since there is only one alternative, I am going to assume that this is a rethorical question designed to invite a discussion about how the alternative is significantly worse in your point of view. Not an interesting debating technique, to be honest.
> Pretty much every other company with a mechanism to send photos to the cloud scans your pictures for CSAM right now and nobody cares. They've been doing it for many years.
There are alternatives available that don't do this, but again, your point appears to be written simply to elicit this specific reponse. Your "pretty much every other company" makes it clear that you are also aware that options exist.
> Nobody cares.
Your next paragraph indicates that, actually, a _lot_ of people cared.
> Apple invited community discussion before implementing it.
Not really. Apple made an announcement, and in the face of an absolute, unmitigated _shitstorm_ of criticism from pretty much _everyone_, they -after fighting an incredibly hard and expensive PR battle- grudgingly called a temporary truce and relented on some of the items they wanted to implement. To frame this as "Apple worked with the community and listened" is... fancy.
The point of that debacle, and this sub-thread, is that Apple is irrepairibly damaging their brand. In the "we will scan all your photos on your device to make sure the content is acceptable" story, they destroyed (literally forever, in the eyes of many people) their branding message that they were on _my_ side, when it comes to privacy and unwanted intrustion of all vendors, including Apple, into my device. That was literally the reason I switched from Android, and by retroactively changing that deal unilaterally on devices I already purchased, they instantly and irrepairably invalidated my only reasons for buying into their overpriced and closed walled garden.
In this new debacle with the EU and their -frankly- childish reponse they once again showed their disdain for their users.
Apple sucks.
The olden days equivalent of the HN crowd (Slashdot? Kuro5hin?) hated Microsoft's behaviour but had to build on their platforms because there wasn't an alternative that would pay the bills. So Microsoft kept raking in profits and probably thought that everything was OK and there wasn't an issue.
But that ill-feeling meant that as soon as an alternative emerged (in this case Apple, powered by open-source, Unix, the web - and later smartphones with the iPhone and Android) there was an exodus and Microsoft's attempts to regain ground (IIS, Windows Phone) were widely ignored.
Apple is on the same ground now (and I say this as an Apple-lover). They are pulling in huge amounts of money through their behaviour but I have no doubt, as soon as an alternative appears (probably through some platform shift) they will come to regret it.
UPDATE: and it would be ironic if the Vision Pro was the thing that triggered the platform shift. If the Vision Pro works well as a Mac alternative (a proper productivity environment but with an infinite screen), once others implement the same idea effectively (and maybe not quite as well as Apple has) it could be the catalyst for developers (and hence apps) jumping ship.
Being a Mac user since the 90's, it is unfortunate what Apple has become. However, this is often happens when a charismatic leader leaves the company (in one way or another). From what is seen in the the process of how so many startup at YC went from little company to transnational corporation, and what people's reaction to them have changed over the course of the year as well as the influence of funding and corporate culture has on a company are also very telling.
Now days I'm sticking to linx BSD F-Droid for personal stuff even though they are not as user friendly in the UI aspect.
This has absolutely nothing to do with a charismatic leader or founder.
Steve Jobs was notoriously the most hard-ass negotiator you'd ever meet. The way Apple is dealing with the EU here is probably exactly how he would have done it, or maybe he might have been even worse.
He created incredibly user-friendly machines, but in the business world he was incredibly ruthless.
When you come from a place of "We have all the right answers and your views don't matter" like how Steve Jobs operated, you can see the harm that mind set is causing in the world today.
It has everything to do with when a company is an outsider it tries to be consumer friendly, but then when it becomes the dominant player then it adopts all the characteristics all dominant players do of trying to attract as much rent from their business as they can, users be damned.
> So apple responded by allowing developers to apply to place exactly one text-only (non-hyperlink), static, reference to an outside payment source on one page in an app
They allow an actual button that links directly to a website[0]. I mean the article by Apple that describes the terms and options literally is titled “Distributing apps in the U.S. that provide an external purchase link” and there a plenty of examples provided.
> and further added a new term that developers must also pay Apple 27% of all revenue from these off-site purchases.
Both the district court[1] as well as the appellate court that later affirmed the ruling[2] spelled out in clear plain language that developers would still owe Apple the commission, that Apple would be able to audit developers and that it’s all legal because its payment for the use of Apple’s IP. Only difference is that the courts assumed Apple would simply charge 30% instead of the discounted 27%.
Some examples:
> In essence, Apple uses the DPLA to license its IP to developers in exchange for a $99 fee and an ongoing 30% commission on developers' iOS revenue.
> As the district court noted, in a world where Apple maintains its distribution restriction but payment processing is opened up, Apple would still be contractually entitled to its 30% commission on in-app purchasers. Apart from any argument by Epic, the district court "presume[d]" that Apple could "utilize[e] a contractual right to audit developers ... to ensure compliance with its commissions."
> Because the court upheld the app-distribution restriction, Apple would still be entitled to its 30% commission on in-app purchases within apps downloaded from the App Store. On its own initiative, the district court floated the idea of Apple permitting multiple in-app payment processors while reserving a right to audit developers to ensure compliance with the 30% commission.
> Suffice it to say, IAP is not merely a payment processing system, as Epic Games suggests, but a comprehensive system to collect commission and manage in-app payments.
> First, and most significant, as discussed in the findings of facts, IAP is the method by which Apple collects its licensing fee from developers for the use of Apple's intellectual property. Even in the absence of IAP, Apple could still charge a commission on developers. It would simply be more difficult for Apple to collect that commission.
0: https://developer.apple.com/support/storekit-external-entitl...
1: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.36...
2: https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2023/04/24/2...
Kinda the way Apple doesn’t want to pay ATT for the same thing.
