It took me my entire college life to get over the feeling of dread of an incoming kick or slap to my face when I said something that would be confrontational, it made it incredibly difficult for me to say no to things because any sort of response that wasn't in line with what an authority figure wanted would give me major fight-or-flight rendering me useless. Even at this point I avoid conflict but have done much better to face my fears and build the ability to speak my mind confidently.
The PTSD made me leave my consultancy that I worked incredibly hard to build with a professor and a senior because they were working me to the ground and I didn't have the ability to say anything. Even at this moment the remnants of my past make me fearful of even applying for jobs even though I know I have a skillset that's industry standard.
Bullying in any shape or form is horrible and can have lifelong consequences on your psyche. To those who perpetrate it or stand by and do nothing, please reconsider that it may affect someone's life as negatively as it has affected mine.
Apologies for the rant, more power to those who feel they cannot stand up for themselves.
however, once my dad was going at my one year younger brother, and for some reason i had enough. interestingly i can't even remember my brother being a target before that, so maybe that was why it was to much for me. it wasn't something i was used to seeing.
i got between the two and pushed my dad against the wall, and told him "that's enough". i was not strong by any means but strong enough to do that.
that was the end of it.
the key element of that experience is that while i never tried to defend myself, something in that situation triggered me to defend my brother. and we were not close as brothers go. and still are not, this brother in particular. so the desire to protect and stand up for others is what helped me to get out of this experience.
i can still sense something like what you feel when someone is going at me. but if anyone is going at someone that i am somehow responsible for or have the ability to support, be it people under me in my team, or children or my partner or even friends, then my reaction is different. at a minimum i will get the person out of harms way and have them going at me instead.
i don't know if this is helpful to anyone. i suppose that wanting to protect others helps me tolerate abuse better. but the other thing i learned from that is to simply walk away when the abuse gets to much. i have cut of contact with anyone who is in any way critical of any aspect of my life or my work. i just don't have the desire to defend myself, and i don't need that kind of unfounded criticism. (i love constructive criticism however, and find that very helpful, so it's not like i can't tolerate any criticism at all)
> It took me my entire college life to get over the feeling of dread of an incoming kick or slap to my face when I said something that would be confrontational, it made it incredibly difficult for me to say no to things because any sort of response that wasn't in line with what an authority figure wanted would give me major fight-or-flight rendering me useless. Even at this point I avoid conflict but have done much better to face my fears and build the ability to speak my mind confidently.
> The PTSD made me leave my consultancy that I worked incredibly hard to build with a professor and a senior because they were working me to the ground and I didn't have the ability to say anything. Even at this moment the remnants of my past make me fearful of even applying for jobs even though I know I have a skillset that's industry standard.
> Bullying in any shape or form is horrible and can have lifelong consequences on your psyche. To those who perpetrate it or stand by and do nothing, please reconsider that it may affect someone's life as negatively as it has affected mine.
> Apologies for the rant, more power to those who feel they cannot stand up for themselves.
Thank you for writing this, it helped me realize something about some issues I have.
in the past i've ended up snapping at coworkers and saying stuff like "either tell me what your problem is or keep your bitchy comments to yourself" which obviously makes me the aggressor in the eyes of management. of course by the time i go back to "normal mode" and think about whether it's better to bite my tongue rather than say anything, i've already said it.
I only know 1 ex-coworker that was passive aggressive, and he was one of my managers, along with two other fake-friendly managers who were mostly inofensive. Luckily I wasn't the first target, and well, he targeted the most competent dev in the building, who also was a tad too honest. Didn't ended well, and by the time is axe went for my head, my product was mostly done and I was ready to go.
in order to hold this opinion, you either have to not actually know what it's like to experience parental bullying, or you have to be in complete denial.
In no situation bullying is a good thing. Bullying is devastating and an unhealthy way of teaching things.
You comment is basically saying "bullying didn't work on you because you were too weak". That's borderline victim shaming and completely insensitive.
Courage has nothing to do with coping with bullying, and you should not need courage for daily interactions with your parents who ought to be your support instead.
You need validation and constructive criticism to grow and bullying is kinda the opposite of this. This validation and constructive criticism will give you the chance to build up self confidence which, in turn, may also you to grow a "thick skin". No need for bullying, which usually takes away your self confidence.
In one of the events 8 kids chased me several miles through neighborhoods and fields. Eventually they caught and surrounded me in a front yard. Luckily, an older woman opened her door and had me step inside her home. A few minutes later she drove me home. I'm sure she's passed by now but I will always be grateful to her.
To a degree, this abuse made me a mean person in later school years. I had my growth spurt between 11 and 12. When I started at a new school, in my new body, I was able to decide that I would no longer be a victim. At about the same time my Grandfather, a massive retired military dude, explained that nobody ever got in trouble for making the first strike in an inevitable conflict.
That advice became my strategy and I was engaged in half a dozen fights where my opponent approached and threatened me and I went all-in with my fists. That gave me a reputation that meant very few others ever bothered me. My fighting stopped shortly after I graduated and I haven't used my fists in 29 years.
Thing is, the world is like that past HS it's just not physical violence. Learning to deal with bullies is a life skill that will be employed throughout most of your life.
It's like we've decided that bikes with training wheels are too dangerous until you turn 18 and then we put you on a rocket powered motorcycle instead.
just being exposed to bullying does not work. at least it didn't work for me. while i learned to stand up for others, i never learned to stand up for myself. i found only two options: either i am able to turn the bully around by becoming friends with them or i completely remove myself from the situation. and that can mean quitting a job and moving to a different city. (it never was as bad for me, so maybe i am exaggerating)
btw i feel that fighting back is decidedly not the right response to bullies. GP is lucky that he managed to stop after graduation, because i don't believe that many others are able to do that.
that said, i don't actually have any experience with this level of bullying. what i experienced was more light teasing, being made fun of, which of course i didn't like, but also didn't know how to respond to.
i do remember teachers noticing and initiating discussions with me and the kids involved. i don't remember if that helped, only that in one case i had the opportunity to respond to the teasing in kind, so i felt that i got even, and said as such when the teachers brought up that situation.
thinking about this now makes me realize that the problem was that these were not my friends. i didn't have any friends in school, and so the issue for me was that i didn't have any support that would have helped me deal with the teasing. i am only guessing that the discussions with the teachers helped me realize that this other kid wasn't stubbornly mean, but more playful, which probably was why i was able to respond in kind later. (i am just making this up now, i have no idea what i was thinking at the time)
so to the question, how to actually learn how to deal with bullies, i think, the answer is to learn how to make friends. not only friends that help you against bullies, but even try to make friends with the bullies themselves.
now in school that needs help from adults who enable the kids to interact with each other in a friendly manner, by providing them with experiences where they can learn to get to know each other.
- Should we create laws to penalize bullying?
Given the reports of bullying's adverse effects of a society's productivity, I'm almost wondering if we should apply legal penalties to bullies and mitigate such externalities. For instance, South Korea enacted a policy in which records of bullying are reflected on college entrance.[1]
[1] https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/bullying-records...
- Will childhood bullies continue to bully as adults?
Are childhood bullies likely to continue bullying as adults, e.g. verbal abuse at the workplace? Being at work sometimes remind me of the atmosphere at high school. Cramping in the same people in a confined space replicates the tribe-like social dynamics akin to high school.
Whenever someone makes a verbally abusive statement, I wonder if they have behaved similarly in school, and never faced behavioral correction.
- What kind of places are least likely to have bullies, for children and adults?
I would love to avoid bullies for the rest of my life. What kind of workplaces are least likely to have them?
Better to help people learn how stand up to bullies, and for companies to make it a priority to be emotionally healthy places and become an example of how to do that most effectively so others can follow (this is one of my great hopes for any companies I build).
What are some resources you would recommend to help learn how to stand up to bullies?
I am also rather skeptical that companies will prioritize providing emotionally healthy places. Bullies can be people in a higher position (seniority, ranking, etc) than their victims, and companies are incentivized to rule in favor of the bullies.
that is an extremely bad idea. this means that mistakes you make as a child, will affect you for the rest of your life.
we need to keep in mind that bullies aren't just mean spirited kids that will never amount to anything good, but they are often themselves victims of a rough situation at home and use bullying as a way to share the pain they are experiencing.
A beautiful idea which will not work, any more than resort to adult authority ever does in such cases. Three reasons:
Shallowly, first, the authority is not absolute and cannot be. There will always be opportunities for a bully to bully; trying to forbid this only makes it more appealing. A sufficiently interested bully won't let themself be avoided, and they find the appearance of vulnerability interesting because they're out for a good time and not a fight.
Shallowly and secondly, bullies rarely act like they do for the sake of pure sadism. There is usually some prior damage back of it. Heaping punishment on top thus tends to make them worse and not better, because they blame their own victims and treat them worse in consequence.
Deeply, bullying leaves a longlasting mark on people who have been made to feel helpless. Resorting to someone else to protect you does not ameliorate this. Learning to defend yourself does, because in doing it you discover that you don't need to resort to outside authority.
A bully puts you in fear. You learn you can take yourself out of it. It usually doesn't take long, and requires consistency much more than the ability to take a punch; once someone gets the idea you're guaranteed to give them a fight rather than the good time they want, they desist. Most childhood bullies can't fight for shit anyway, or at least most of mine couldn't.
> I would love to avoid bullies for the rest of my life. What kind of workplaces are least likely to have them?
Those where there's no access to money or power worth having. As far as I can tell, those are the primary incentives in adult life to which people respond with bullying behavior that has to be taken seriously.
That said, it looks like the situation in South Korea may be far worse than what I've seen. If it's as apparently universally described, I'd tend to think of it as a cultural pathology. (That's not American condescension, I promise. If anything, given the state of America these days, it's half professional opinion and half commiseration...)
As someone bullied in high school, I would counter this by saying "how about we start by punishing adults that openly participate in the bullying?". Surely that isn't so much to ask? Because this was a definite problem. Sudden unexplainable extremely pedantic test corrections, teachers shouting at you when you get bullied. Teachers treating the bullied kid as a problem instead of the bullying, and, although that was often so badly done it almost helped, teachers attempting to bully you directly.
I learned to do tests absolutely correctly, leave absolutely no opportunity for the teacher to deduct points. A SINGLE spelling error in a verb in a history test? -20%. Use of "advanced" mathematics in a physics exam? -50% (I used a derivative because of a book on physics I got from the library, and the physics teacher (of 10th grade, in US terms) did not understand derivatives, or what they have to do with physics. After all, due to state legislation, we have a physics teacher that had a "license" (master's degree) in history ... and a history teacher that had a license in physics. Technically they could switch, but their tenure would reset to zero if they did, with consequences for pay and apparently if the school had to shrink they'd get fired sooner. Both chose against doing this). Asking physics questions in history class definitely led to bullying.
But can we start by actually punishing abuse of adult authority for bullying, and give some opportunity for kids to prove such bullying.
I have a feeling that bullying was/is particularly common and more violent in the UK compared to the rest of the world.
I am from France, and I always found the portraiture of bullying in English culture quite foreign to me. Repeated beatings, total humiliation, stalking, all these horrific behaviors did seem fairly established in the UK, while they were exceptional in my personal experience (not that it didn’t exist, but their frequency was much lower, and their intensity much milder).
It seems to me like the culture of both boarding schools, and “keep calm and carry on” (for lack of a better word) were a particularly fertile ground for such bad behaviors to spread.
But maybe I am wrong, just an intuition here.
During my childhood, most of the oddballs or introverted kids, myself included, were kind of ignored and had almost no interaction with the athletes and popular kids who were getting into fights with each other.
From my observation, it seemed bullying is group dynamics - it always involved a cluster of kids beating on a single child they picked out. It also reminded me of animal behavior, as a way of asserting who is part of the pack, and who is an outsider. And I think somehow it's related to the structure of institutions, like schools, sports, and military.
I'm from Belgium, and this kind of stuff you wouldn't really see here. Getting slapped and then defending yourself that you're not crying.
The female student had a personal protection order against the boy. The school apparently feels that this doesn't apply when he is in school and it was the girls responsibility to avoid the boy.
https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/educati...
Kids are stuck with the same assholes and abusers for years.
Add an environment on par with the most infamous workplaces (“you have to ask me to go take a piss. I may say no and there’s little you can do about it”), expectations stricter than most workplaces (“here’s some stuff for you to do at home tonight. I expect it to be done tomorrow, regardless of life circumstances. Same the next day, and the next, all damn year”) and… man, no wonder many adults have nightmares about school for years and years afterward, even if they weren’t exactly bullied.
I used to be a school teacher and quit because I could not stand to see the institutional cruelty. The crazy part to me is when I try to talk about this to other adults they just look at me like I'm crazy. Because it's free childcare. And, "well, I turned out just fine", spoken by an anxious, unhealthy drone who hates their life of quiet desperation.
See https://cantrip.org/gatto.html for more
I managed to "overcome" my social anxiety at high school and both high school and university were pretty good experiences with good friends, no bullying, I even started dating by the end of university (which was horrifying to me earlier). I thought back then that bullying won't have any bad effects, I was pretty religious and considered it a trial that I passed that made me stronger and more empathic to people being victimized.
Problems started at work and in relationships. I realized after decades that I consistently let other people walk all over me by default and it caused A LOT of issues. I rejected all the women who seemed "too good for me" becuse they were normal healthy people, and I have been in a series of co-abusive toxic relationships (somehow the girls ALL have turned out to be bullied as well later).
I stayed at my first IT job for over 5 years not asking for rises while the IT salaries grew quickly here, and by the end I was underpaid by more than 50% compared to people with similar experience and skill. I had problems with procrastination and I always felt I'm about to be fired, but by now I worked for several companies and managed to get to normal senior-level income and all of the companies were always saying they are happy with my performance. I was a teamlead for a while and they were OK with my performance too. I realized consciously they wouldn't keep me if they were lying, but deep down I thought they are lying for some reason and they are about to fire me. Sometimes it was so strong a feeling I couldn't deal with it and have left the job on my own.
How are you doing now? Are things better?
Remember it’s never too late to change in life. Sounds like a cliche to say but it’s good advice that’s true and important to repeat because it’s easy to forget. I forget it all the time and wish I would take that advice myself. Never too late to change.
I’m lucky. That teacher was exceptional.
There’s no doubt in my mind that being bullied has significant consequences, but this post made me wonder… what’s the consequences later on for those who bully? Surely that kind of anti-social behaviour leads to poor outcomes for them too??
Last time I did this I discovered one of the more sadistic bullies I remember from grade school became an executive at Uber. So I'd rather not know. Though in the end it seemed like a rather fitting conclusion.
These things are what can cause bullying AND bad outcomes later in life.
As an adult now, I realize that many people who were bullies in school came from troubled homes. I don't blame them. I blame more the circumstances that caused them to become who they were.
That's a funny observation, which I'm pretty sure is true for me too. I never looked up to many people though. at the same time, i also lucked into software, most people didn't do as well.
I have bad news.
'Bullied' or not, these people will be scarred by being rejected from the social group in any context that they have interactions with their peers. There will always be people who are rejected by their social group for various reasons.
It's extremely jarring because in ancient times it generally foretold literal death. I remember it feeling like that sometimes.
i disagree with that. you can teach people to be accepting of others. doing just that in my opinion is exactly one of the jobs of school.
It was? Not that I've been in primary school in a few decades, but I find this claim exceedingly hard to believe.
She went to high school in a poor area of the US south during the 1970s, so her school probably wasn't good. She's told me stories of how she was bullied physically (mainly by boys, but girls bullied her physically too), and how she's glad it's not like that "nowadays"/"anymore." Even kids who weren't bullied still got into fistfights. It probably didn't help that corporal punishment was routine at her school.
I went to a magnet high school in a high income county in the US. I graduated in 2021, and I personally didn't see or experience any bullying. Students were generally pretty nice and left you alone if they didn't like you.
From reading this thread, I realize the difference probably comes more from the areas we grew up in, but I had attributed it to bullying being mostly eliminated without thinking much about it.
Many have given anecdotes, but we need statistics in order to get an accurate view of the whole country. According to the National Center for Education Statistics, 22% of US students ages 12-18 reported being bullied, while 5% reported specifically being pushed, shoved, tripped, or spit on.
Which undermines the vast majority and should not even be considered.
I've been bullied pretty much continously as a child and I'm 100% sure it made me a worse and more paranoid person with all disadvantages to that attached.
I've got my own kids now and we homeschool. Which is not really because of my own experience at school but still, friends with kids tell of the antics at school and I'm glad mine aren't involved in either side of those stories.
Asking because it's something I've looked at for unrelated reasons, and while the couple of providers I've interviewed thus far I disqualified for other reasons, if there's more to look out for here it'd be good to know about.
(I haven't engaged with / tried it because it seems like, at best, the jury is still out on it.)
Now: Homeless and broke. Out of work for a long time. I let people shit all over me, even in adulthood.
I was told that adulthood would be different. In fact, it was the same as childhood, but more insidious.
I pray for death being unable to commit suicide. Failed attempts. I don’t want any help. I just want to go to sleep and not wake up.
Related: is it weird that the identity of my childhood bully ostensibly exists on some dossier in possession by a big tech company, and has been used as part of a demoralization campaign? How would I even know if this had occurred intentionally? Seems to me that the information secrecy and closed source nature of social media big tech firms is ripe for abusing data as part of malicious psychological warfare: bullying on algorithmic steroids. I am quite sure that this has happened to me repeatedly (google, twitter), yet there’s no pathway to inquire, etc. no accountability, no transparency. Unlike other hn users, I don’t have insider friends at those orgs to inquire.
My advice is to focus on healing your self with therapy sessions. Assuming this might sound like bad advice to someone who is broke try to figure out which free resources are available. Maybe subreddits or users willing to help pro bono.
Just the fact that you want to inquire about social media being weaponized against you is something that I would say just log off, don't let it even get to you. There's a reason why people deactivate their social accounts. Maybe it has happened but that shouldn't concern you. Your well being is and that involves difficult conversations challenging your thoughts and expectations.
Adulthood is more insidious in this respect, yes. Because our country lacks basic things like a national health care system that can help us. We have an infinite budget for wars but the notion of helping one another is blasphemous. So you're on your own in that sense, unfortunately.
The mind is funny, it can be our best friend or own worst enemy. Do everything in your power to love and care for yourself. Everything flows from there. Your situation is not unusual or embarrassing. You're not the first and won't be the last person to experience it. Build yourself up, don't break yourself down.
The city or state should have people to help with the forms, including social workers.
From there, they can also get connected with licensed mental health counselors.
I hope you find the peace you deserve.
I made the mistake of discussing potential relationship issues using FB messenger, over the course of a couple of weeks my feed became almost entirely toxic memetic content; infidelity memes, cuckoldry memes, 'man up bro' type of content, incel content and a lot of gradual 'pushing out'; videos of men in the woods alone hunting, people living 'happily' in vans with dogs, alone, always alone, and with a vague hint of 'you can get your revenge' thrown in there - no specific 'calls to action' but a general destabilising push. Some of it was really really awful and bleak; the man alone in the woods hunting realising the only person he can trust ever is his ever-faithful dog, it was really toxic. Also 'homeless' - I think one day I must have seen the word 'homeless' in literally every single comment I opened. I've never seen a word so many times in my life. It was incredibly strange.
I could see a person who was already quite unhappy and isolated being driven to do something really stupid if they didn't protect themselves by pulling the plug, which I did.
In addition just about every single comment section everywhere has people stirring up drama. Reddit has had to ban 'crime' posts from local city subreddits because people flood the subs with endless 'CRIME EPIDEMIC STAY INSIDE IT'S SAFE INSIDE' type posts that serve only to create tons of anxiety. It's not accidental, it's something that's being done.
I do think that a lot of the issues with homelessness, migratory behaviour and isolation within society are caused by these platforms pushing this sort of 'ah just give up on society, be an island' mentality on people.
I'd say that it's now very very hard to maintain a normal state of mental health if you make extensive use of these platforms; very hard but doable if you confine yourself to a desktop, almost impossible if you have the apps on your phone.
Another technique is to use past trauma events such a divorce or childhood abuse as part of customized content on one’s feed.
Without transparency, how could one know if this was being done intentionally or not? Big tech valuations are largely tied to information asymmetry and secrecy as such. What power could they enjoy over a user if the user was able to see all of the data they hoard and how it’s being used in full transparent detail?
Luckily I was not really bullied thanks to my height being always tallest in class and besides being kinda shy nerd I hang out with popular kids not being completely out of touch.
My father was also very violent and I was scared shitless when he was angry. And he was always angry at something or someone. He tried to strangle my mom multiple times, hit me, broke windows, yelled like a madman...
It turned me into a ghost, trying to be invisible while I hated not being "seen".
I was crazy shy, couldn't look at people for long, felt bad whenever I saw they saw me. My safe place was the Web. It saved my life, and helped me find (or created??) my passion.
It took me a good 20-25 years to evolve and start daring to live more the way I wanted. Now I'm 40, it's all far behind, but I still get sad from time to time, thinking about all that crap. Yet, I'm thankful, because it turned me into someone with a lot of inner calm, patience, empathy, and willingness to make people around me happier. I have very few deep relationships, but I value those a lot, and I don't need any more.
Empathy, calm and patience are powerful and valuable skills to have in many life situations.
When I was first bullied in school it was scary and I was made to feel a victim by my parents and teachers – bullying is bad and therefore me being bullied made me a victim.
This got worse the more I tried to get other people to do something about it. I'd tell my parents and teachers and the more I asked for help the more they'd take sympathy and try to help, but as those who have been bullied are likely aware rarely does telling the teacher actually put an end to the bullying.
A few years later I change schools and made a friend who was a bit of a weirdo. People didn't like either of us so we got on. He had a completely different view on bullying to me though. When he got bullied he'd always fight back. He wouldn't always come out on top, but he always fought back. And then he started doing the same for me when I was bullied. And seeing him do this I started to fight back with him.
First the first time in years I felt like I was no longer powerless to bullies. Now it was something I could fix. Obviously I still didn't like being bullied but it became way easier to do with once I realised it was my problem to solve. The shame and helplessness was no longer there and I started to stand up for myself. Obviously sometimes there was nothing we could do. If a group of kids want to beat you up, they'll do it. But we'd always find a way to get them back later when they were on their own.
When I look back on my bullying now I view it as the single best thing that ever happened to me because it gave me the self confidence to take action and solve my own problems.
To this day people will say mean things to me from time to time, but I have a ridiculously thick to the point that I rarely ever react unless people start getting physically abusive. While I might still get nervous when someone is physically aggressive towards, I don't feel powerless or a victim anymore. The only thing that goes through my mind is, 1: how do I ensure my safety, and two: how do I get this person back for what they've done.
What I've seen among many of my friends who were also bullied though is a kinda low self esteem and low self worth which holds them back. They avoid social interaction. They avoid conflict. They struggle to deal with their emotions. Etc.. And honestly I think that's partly because they were taught that they were victims from a young age and they're subconsciously embraced that as they've grown up where I was lucky enough to break out of that cycle.
The other thing I'd say here is that I don't understand why we treat crimes committed by children so differently. If a child is physically abusing another individual they should be arrested. Not punishing bullying in my opinion is why it's so common. The teacher saying, "please stop punching James in the face or I'll call your mum" obviously isn't going to do anything. It's utterly absurd the level of abuse we allow kids to get away with.
I guess to summarise what I'm saying, I think the reason bullying is such a big issue is because kids are taught they're powerless victims whilst nothing is ever done to actually stop the bullying from continuing. My school used to tell me if someone is being physically abusive to me I should say, "please don't do that, I don't like it". What we should actually do is tell children they must either physically defend themselves (if they can) or get out of the situation. Then once they're safe they should immediately call the police to report the crime. If we want to stop bullying this is how we'd do it.
It's plausible there are many root factors that contribute both to negative life outcomes, and also increase the chance of being bullied. E.g. being disabled, or autistic, or even just ugly. That would cause the correlation mentioned, even if the school bullying itself didn't worsen outcomes.
It's reasonable to assume that kids whom are bullied have socially undesirable qualities vis-a-vis kids who are not bullied. Kids with socially undesirable qualities are obviously more likely to become adults with socially undesirable qualities.
There's no reason to think those people wouldn't perform worse when they are literally selected for negative qualities.
Playing devil's advocate here in case someone has a clearer causation-not-correlation story: what could we look at to determine whether bullying causes a lifetime of misery, or whether 7 and 11 year old bullies are deliberately picking on those they think are just beginning their lifetimes of misery?
(reading Orwell's Such, Such Were the Joys about his english private school days gave me great insight into his "the cruelty is the point" world of 1984)
fuckem. karma got them I think.
I was bullied to the point of near complete ostracision in high school.
After a few months, I had a talk with some adults I knew outside my usual circle. These were mentors, some tech people teaching me assembly language and radio. Others were farmers, military, one business owner.
The advice and knowledge I was given varied dramatically! The official circle of people I was supposed to listen to were kind of weak and a lot of their focus was avoidance and coping until adulthood. Parents and school.
Pardon me, but fuck that!
These other people were far more real in what they told me and I felt empowered to not be a victim.
Let's just say I spent a year making sure some bullies paid extremely high prices for bullying me. Some ended up with cars that would not work anymore without very expensive repairs. Some had accidents on stairs and other advantageous places. Still others lost relationships with people they valued highly.
Put simply, in those years I learned the true meaning of "do what it takes."
I got whomped on a few times and that was about it. And when that happened I made damn sure to make sure it cost them. Usually they won, but also usually they did not do it again.
A lot of what happened could never be associated with me. Funny thing about bullies. When they are impacted to the point of real loss, material goods, status, etc... they often find they lack what it takes to bully.
And I turned out just fine. Left my small town with a bunch of skills and a small circle of friends I know to this day.
Since that time, I have rarely felt the need to do those sorts of things. It is nice to know I can. It sucks to know I may have to.
Not sorry. No regrets.
In ny post childhood life away from the hate churches and pools of well meaning but very toxic people, I was able to rid my life of personal judgements and fear, blame and shame.
I amplify the good in my circles. The people on my teams are encouraged to take no shit. Don't be mean. In fact, be nice to the point of helping enemies while making it clear far worse could be happening.
People do change.
Some change because they want to. That's me. I want to be a good human and got no time for low quality ones and their painful and often expensive general fuckery.
Some change out of fear, or cost too. I know I have a few of those under my belt. A few of those people are friends now. People who I would help at great personal cost and risk. I reached them. It was expensive and painful to do.
This world is pretty damn harsh. Our government is lackluster on a good day and people range all over the map. It can be hard to make a buck too.
Fact is, we need to take damn good care of our own and make sure they are empowered to give every bit of what they get, but not even a small measure more. Equally empowered to extend a hand in help. And above all, feel no shame for who they were born as. Nope. None of that shit makes sense.
Looking at me you would never know. Good. That means I got fully past whatever it is, which leaves me free to amplify good where and with whom I can.
And in that sense, we live in the world we create.
Mine does not have tolerance of bullying in it. Mine says you get to live your truth with no fear, blame or shame. None of us picked being straight, queen, gay, trans, whatever.
Mine says you are smart enough to do whatever it is and there is no shame asking for help either.
And how lucky did I get?
Found a woman who was also bullied, and who also did much of what I write here! She is the best and was better than me in some much needed ways. Great! We are who we hang with and who we value.
Choose carefully and the benefits are life long. Ignore that reality and the pain and suffering, struggle is also life long.
At any given time we have the rest of our lives to get these things right and benefit from having done so. Why doddle?
We are passing these things along. Here is an example:
Son in primary school has peer saying "nigger", "nigger" to my son non stop. Yes, he is black and I am not. No, it does not matter.
He went with all the conflict resolution strategies the school and other professionals insisted on.
One day he came home and said he has had quite enough. Nothing worked.
Ok fine. Fact is nothing worked because none of that stuff actually reached the other peer where it matters!
I told him to make it hurt. But nothing life changing. No biting off of things, no poking out, ripping, breaking bones... just make it hurt and when the authority calls you off, comply and have them give me a call.
I got the call and arrived in a room with a principal, the parents of the kid who just got hurt, the kid who got hurt, my son and me.
I walked in, made polite greetings all around and then nicely, but firmly put a stop to the conversation starting about how my son needs to... nope. Full stop.
I said the cost of racism just went up. Kid does it again, they can expect the same response. I asked him directly if he would please find something, anything else to entertain himself.
Told him the hurt he is feeling is the same hurt my son felt fro a few months!
Made sure he knew it just does not have to be this way too. His call.
They suspended my son, who I immediately handed one $20 for each day to spend at his grandparents house doing keep up work which we expected to leave home with that day.
Needless to say they were shocked!
I got called a lot of things which I ignored completely.
We packed up, wished them well and left.
Kid never said nigger to my son again.
Years later they ended up on the same ball team I was coaching. That kid comes up and asks if we have a problem.
Of course not! I give him that shoulder touch of encouragement a coach will sometimes do for a player they feel will benefit from and said, "Let's go have a great season playing ball!"
Turns out it was that kids father instigated that shit. Kid told me after a time and man was I pissed! The very same parents expressing righteous indignation so many years ago, as if! (I am feeling a bit of that anger still. Good grief!)
My son and that kid remain good friends.
Like others here, my own Dad bullied me too. That is what drove me to seek others outside my circle for help. IMHO, having a parent do that is the worst!
It does real harm that endures. Healing that harm is hard. It is real, ugly, messy, human work.
I had to put my own father in jail for bullying my mother who never did anything but be good to others and try hard to make sure we always had food to eat. I had a gun pointed at me once too. Talked him down, got it and tossed it in a pond while waiting for police to arrive. (That was tough and quite possibly the most difficult thing I have ever done.)
Had I not received the wisdom and empowerment I did, I have no doubt I would have not married the fine woman I did and would be a very different person today. Likely a fearful, weaker, sad one.
I might be dead. I wonder if that other possible me would stay cool at gunpoint...
I got lucky and I know it. So many of us are unlucky.
When we see that, we can help. I think we should, and I personally do.
