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0 pointsmauvehaus1y ago0 comments

I wasn't in the trade in 2004, so some of this is a bit speculative:

It looks like everything on the poster is made to be cut on a 3-axis machine. Stepping up to five-axis is a huge leap in cost at present, and surely was then as well.

Tooling has likely improved in availability and cost since 2004 as well. Automatic tool changers have probably also become more affordable, but just like going to five-axis, you're getting into a whole different class of machine once you start talking about adding that.

Some of the reasons to cut stuff single-sided on the flat are unchanged by any of that though. It still costs you precision (and time) to flip a workpiece over, and you're going to have issues if you don't have good consistency with your material thickness if you need to reference your Z axis to the material surface rather than the bed surface.

Working an end of a long piece remains a pain in the ass for fixturing that involves a hole in your machine bed, and possibly the floor as well. Tenoning a bed rail, for instance, is inconvenient however you do it.

All of my CNC experience is on a three-axis machine, five-axis gets you a lot of flexibility that most places won't have unless CNC work is their primary focus, or at least core to their workflow. I've seen a shop that builds high-end windows with a large five axis machine. I have no concerns about the durability of their products, it's just that most people don't have access to that kind of capability.

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jeffffff1y ago

i'm a hobbyist woodworker with more money than time. i have a pretty basic 3-axis cnc and i thought it would save me time, but it really doesn't. the only thing i actually use it for is cutting out router templates, and even that would be done better with a laser cutter (although a good laser cutter costs a lot more than my cnc).

i could see how a machine big enough for 4x8 sheets with an automatic tool changer, a vacuum table, and all the automatic calibration gizmos might be a time saver for a production shop, but if you're building something that's a one-off or you don't have all the setup automation goodies (which are $$$$$) then setup and programming usually end up taking longer than doing the work the old fashioned way.

for tenon cutting like in the bed rail example you gave, i have a hard time imagining any situation where cnc is going to be more efficient than a domino xl.

Tossrock1y ago

I find CNC is a time-saver for one-offs when the work is complex enough that it'd be difficult-to-impossible to do by hand, eg complex curving cuts, engraving/pockets, etc.

I actually saw an unusually straightforward example of this last year - a group of friends and I were making instances of Tyler Gibson's 1-sheet portable bike rack design (it's great, check it out: https://www.thetylergibson.com/building-a-better-portable-bi... )

One group of two-ish people used jigsaws to manually cut the pieces, and I used a Shopbot 4'x8' CNC router. Very roughly, it took about twice as many man-hours to make one by hand, vs by CNC, and the result was less clean. CNC could have done even better, but due to warping of the sheet, it failed to cut all the way through in places, and I had to do a cleanup pass with the jigsaw. And once the upfront cost of generating the toolpaths etc was paid, it would improve again.

bradly1y ago

4x8 CNCs with a vacuum table really aren't faster. Even the watercooled CNCs I've used are still too slow for joinery. All the furniture shops I've worked in have been dominated by the Domino for most joinery tasks.

montgomery_r1y ago

Thanks for the informed commentary. I'm surprised that the tools haven't dropped in price faster, but perhaps there is a de minimis based on amount of material / strength / precision engineering required. I got to the site because I have a plan to make a bed frame (poor first project choice I know) and found this whilst looking for joints that might work gluelessly.

wizardwes1y ago

In my experience, the cost has significantly dropped, it's just that back then they were even more absurdly ridiculous

WillAdams1y ago

If you're making a bed, consider that this is a problem people have worked on for a very long time and there is an entire vertical industry on it.

One reputable company has an entire section in their catalog on it:

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/hardware/bed-hardware

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