It seems like such a crazy dynamic at the moment, there must be some sage economic/social/network theory that helps explain what's going on.
Perhaps it's just a case of 'social collusion' in finance; I'm sure it has a better name. Excuse my memory, but I recall with the dot-com bubble a particular financial analyst, I can't remember her name, called out the emperor's lack of clothes, and very shortly after the market crashed. This time, again forgive the memory lapse, a financier targeted Google and tech wages, even though I'm not sure wages can ever really be in a bubble, and seems, along with or just signalling, the fed's machinations, to have triggered this wave of layoffs, etc.
I'm on a team that's talking about PIPing me and I have no opportunities to move to internal teams because there are so few open positions at my level. External job posting seem terrible right now in my area.
I think that's actually a fairly recent thing (like leisure time, which was really something only rich people had, once upon a time). There's still plenty of jobs that people have to do, that they don't look forward to, and are waiting for retirement. Some, pay quite well, but they aren't fun.
It's great to make a good living, and have a vocation that energizes and motivates us. We spend the majority of our time at our gig, so it makes sense that we should be happy, there. Employers want us to be happy, so we'll spend more time with them.
But there's a price to be paid for being relaxed and happy. I find that I need pressure, to get stuff shipped. These days, I do it for free (retired), and have to provide my own pressure. It works. The trick for most managers, is to be able to keep the pressure up, without making life miserable for their employees, because miserable employees are not productive ones.
I knew a very well-paid Derivatives Analyst (so you know this was a while ago). She used to work for a major bank, and told me how they would bring catered meals to her desk, and provide complimentary limousine drives home, if she stayed past train time. They also had world-class daycare.
She was pretty happy with her job, and stayed, until the bottom fell out of the market. I didn't have much contact with her, at that time, but I know she bounced around a bit. Not sure what she's up to, nowadays. I'm sure that she was under a tremendous amount of pressure, but some folks thrive on it. I know that she made a shitload of money, for a while.
Happy employees need not be the pampered and coddled college style employees Google made famous. They just need to be appreciated. And managers need to create environments that are not safe spaces where no strife happens but that can be a place where people feel appreciated and capable of making changes.
I feel none of this at my current role just golden handcuffs that keep me here.
My experience comes from working for highly structured corporations. The pay wasn't abysmal, but wasn't that great, either. The pressure could be pretty intense; especially at the last corporation (a famous Japanese optical company). I stayed there, for almost 27 years. The reasons I stayed, are many, but money sure wasn't one.
I saved enough to be able to retire, when the tech industry let me know that I was too old for them (at 55). I'm not rich, but happier than I ever thought I had a right to be. Also, I do more work, and am much more productive, than I ever was, as a wage slave.
Equally I'm finding that at the upper leadership level (c level) a lot of companies are directionless which feeds down the whole chain and makes it difficult for middle managers to convey the importance of the work to be done. I'm sure this differs for blue collar work though since the tasks are more set in stone by design documents and safety codes.
I'm personally still trying to figure out if the lack of direction from above comes from a mixture of lack of personal interest and leadership training. Or if overall leadership training has fallen to the wayside and many lack the ability to properly communicate and plan for the future.
To be fair though I haven't had any experience as a manager or c level so I very much could just be lacking perspective.
But well, that's certainly not a "right", as you said.
Disagree, its been shown that hunter gatherer tribes in various locations generally only need to work for about 4h a day on average.
I believe the “there is only time for work” stuff turned up as power structures developed. A pair of busy hands has less time to plot to overthrow the overlords, after all.
That's one way to look at the common job requirement of "passion." Drink the Flavor Aid!
Let employees earn the ability to take a low-pay sabbatical once they get an itch to leave and/or burnout. Companies make extended absences work for parental leave, so just do that for more people more often
Never a fan of constant job hopping myself - I think you need time to grow and that doesn’t mean chasing salary for your entire life. It’s important to settle somewhere for a while and learn/grow.
So it’s good if a company is big enough to find creative ways to keep employees engaged
I hopped teams a few times internally and my pay has been abysmal. Many companies aren't big enough to have enough open roles at the same level and next level in the right languages for a solid career track. At least for me, every move ended up being different languages/stacks from the previous team. There was no continuity and now my career has turned into a lower paying job and I've been identified as a low performer. The unstable environment and lack of past rewards from when i was a high performer has made me unengaged.
While it is indeed important to find a place where one can settle and grow, it’s crucial to recognise that the concept of personal and professional development has evolved significantly, particularly among younger generations. The meaning of "settle" has changed a lot.
Today many professionals view career growth through a different lens. For them, personal development often involves seeking new challenges, acquiring diverse skills, and gaining varied experiences, which sometimes necessitates moving between jobs. While salary is a factor in these decisions, it’s not always the most influential one.
A significant concern for many young talents is the lack of meritocratic promotion structures in many organizations. They often find themselves in environments where hierarchical seniority is valued over actual competence and performance. This can be particularly frustrating when they have to report to or work with less competent senior team members, which can stifle their growth and innovation.
Furthermore, the workplace culture plays a crucial role. Toxic environments, where outdated practices and rigid hierarchies prevail, are unappealing to young professionals who value collaboration, transparency, and inclusivity. This disparity in expectations and experiences is driving many talented individuals to seek better opportunities elsewhere.
The result of an outdated work concept, which is still encountered too frequently, is that one often ends up dealing with superiors who have grown within the company’s hierarchy (they are “settled”), possessing authority but not corresponding technical skills or respect in the eyes of their subordinates.
In the future, as the younger generation enters the workforce, this will become increasingly less acceptable.
While settling down to grow is a valuable approach, it’s equally important to understand that growth, for many professionals today, involves finding environments that foster learning, respect competence, and provide clear, merit-based paths for advancement.
My advice is keep employees engaged with constant learning and new challenges.
PS: Job hopping has such a negative connotation - I hate when people say it’s moneywise. I learned way more than staying in a endless repetitive job with a boss that shielded me off.
Sometimes job hopping is about keeping the goals you have for yourself and your career intact at the cost of some short-term 'reputation'.
HR says so often that we're 'people first' and then raises an eyebrow when you give a real accounting of the quick moves. It's so frustrating and backwards.
This past year marked my tenth full-time year in teaching. I've been reflecting often on my career thus far. When I started out, I wasn't sure that I would continue teaching primary school. I promised myself that I would do it for five years and keep savings high to allow myself to return to studying if I wanted to change fields. Most of my fellow graduates work now in government or education. Ten years in, I have a competitive salary that allows me a good standard of living. I didn't return to school. Although, I did upgrade courses to allow me to change roles. And, I'm now on the edge of starting a family. The career that I was fortunate and lucky enough to start is actually a perfect fit for having children.
The thing is I do feel stuck. There aren't many other career paths that would give me the same salary and job-security. I'm decent at the job. But, I'm not enjoying it. It's ridiculously stressful. Doesn't feel as fulfilling as it did. And, there is a culture of working on your off-hours to do the tasks that we aren't actually remunerated to do. Being a government employee, you often feel that your working environment is changing at the whims of politicians.
Because I'm passionate about technology. That's why I read hn. But, my only experience in tech was seeing entry-level help-desk workers and area tech support consultants. It seemed like miserable work. I was told my many respected adults, that technology could continue to be my passion and major hobby. It's true, my standard of living does allow me every tech toy I could have ever wanted and new computers I could only dream about. I'm weighing the positives and negatives.
Where Im from those programs and activity are usually ran by multiple teachers and need a lot more than hard science knowledge to run well. For you they could provide a on ramp into more and more tech without losing too much of what you have know
> The challenge for companies, executives say, is how to find ways to create growth opportunities even if that doesn’t mean a substantial pay raise or a title change.
I do not think this is new. In the company I am working for this happens at least since the early 00s. For most employees it only works for some years, though.
i realised recently that covid has made me un-hireable.
this type of thinking, i can't do it anymore. i've tasted freedom and i saw how short life is to waste in a office.
