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0 pointsscott_w1y ago0 comments

> I don't think people are trying to say it's a zero skill sport.

I didn’t say you were, you were saying that there’s less skill involved, which is outright untrue.

> in sports like soccer or basketball, skills like dribbling or shooting accuracy don't have a skill "cap" and are generally uncorrelated to physiology.

Skill is highly correlated to physiology at the higher levels. Plenty of people practice as much as Messi, yet haven’t a fraction of his footballing ability.

> It's not that strategy and skill don't exist in cycling, it's that raw power output (Watts per Kg) is ultimately the deciding factor once cyclists get to the skill cap of piloting their bike down a mountain.

You’ve not watched the famous Pidcock descent then.

> the competitive advantage becomes how fast you can make yourself go down that hill.

Very little pedalling is involved at 60mph, it’s 100% skill.

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LargeWu1y ago

> Skill is highly correlated to physiology at the higher levels. Plenty of people practice as much as Messi, yet haven’t a fraction of his footballing ability.

This is counter to your thesis. Messi's dominance doesn't come because he has elite physical characteristics. He's dominant because his level of skill with the ball at his foot is an outlier even among elites. It's not because he's pushing the physical limits of the human body.

There might be some variance in skill for elite riders, but I would guess the density curve of skill in that cohort is a very narrow bell curve, ie. low variance with relatively few outliers. This is what I mean when I say pure skill is not the major factor in success in cycling. Most riders are going to be pretty closely matched skill-wise, and the winners are going to be those that can generate the most power for a sustained amount of time.

scott_wOP1y ago

> This is counter to your thesis.

No, it’s because his skill is deeply tied to his body’s physiology. I wager you’d find physical traits that you simply must be born with. His height, balance, reaction times. Physiology.

> Most riders are going to be pretty closely matched skill-wise

This is true for all sports.

> winners are going to be those that can generate the most power for a sustained amount of time.

Strategy comes into it a lot, just like most sports.

Also, there’s plenty of talented footballers that will never go pro because they lack the ability to run fast or maintain that intensity for 90 minutes (fitness).

its_ethan1y ago

I’ve given up on this thread because people seem to be getting very defensive and interpreting malice when there is none, but your comment here is similar to what I was trying to say. Cycling has a tighter bell curve of skill than other sports, just like all/most endurance sports.

It’s not a knock, I still enjoy those sports a lot, often more than wider skill bell curve sports.. oh well

scott_wOP1y ago

> he said less in comparison with other professional sports.

No, we’re taking umbrage with the fact that people are saying cycling requires less skill, when this simply isn’t true. It requires different skills, that’s all.

LargeWu1y ago

No, you're still not getting it.

It's not that it requires less skill, relative to an average person. It's that skill is not the differentiating factor among elites.

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LargeWu1y ago

> Skill is highly correlated to physiology at the higher levels. Plenty of people practice as much as Messi, yet haven’t a fraction of his footballing ability.

scott_wOP1y ago

> This is counter to your thesis.

No, it’s because his skill is deeply tied to his body’s physiology. I wager you’d find physical traits that you simply must be born with. His height, balance, reaction times. Physiology.

> Most riders are going to be pretty closely matched skill-wise

This is true for all sports.

> winners are going to be those that can generate the most power for a sustained amount of time.

Strategy comes into it a lot, just like most sports.

Also, there’s plenty of talented footballers that will never go pro because they lack the ability to run fast or maintain that intensity for 90 minutes (fitness).

its_ethan1y ago

It’s not a knock, I still enjoy those sports a lot, often more than wider skill bell curve sports.. oh well

scott_wOP1y ago

> he said less in comparison with other professional sports.

No, we’re taking umbrage with the fact that people are saying cycling requires less skill, when this simply isn’t true. It requires different skills, that’s all.

LargeWu1y ago

No, you're still not getting it.

It's not that it requires less skill, relative to an average person. It's that skill is not the differentiating factor among elites.

2 more replies

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse