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0 pointskuschku1y ago0 comments

.NET/C#'s competitor JVM/Kotlin does provide a UI framework (Jetbrains Compose) that runs on iOS, Android, Windows, Mac, Linux, and the web.

That's what you have to compare against, and .NET/C# falls flat.

0 comments

pjc501y ago

That's also not part of the JVM or the Java language.

notpushkin1y ago

Jetbrains is a third party vendor here, too.

kuschkuOP1y ago

A third party vendor for the Kotlin language? Kotlin has replaced Java as C#'s largest competitor, so that's what we should be comparing against.

toyg1y ago

> Kotlin has replaced Java as C#'s largest competitor

Er, I don't think this assertion is backed by data. See for example https://pypl.github.io/PYPL.html

Is Kotlin the most "active", "hot", or "up-and-coming" competitor? Possibly. But the "largest"? Its deployed footprint and popularity are nowhere close to Java's at this point in time.

neonsunset1y ago

No and it's not even close. Kotlin only has a single Jetbrains Compose (I presume Kotlin Multiplatform is the same thing). It is also subject to the quirks and specifics of JVM implementations, build-systems and package management. Kotlin native partially bypasses this, but its performance is a factor of 0.1-0.01x vs OpenJDK (if there is new data - please let me know). This is very unlike NativeAOT which is on average within 90% of CoreCLR JIT but is also a performance improvement in variety of scenarios.

C# and F# get to enjoy the integration that is "much closer to the metal" as well as much richer cross-platform GUI frameworks ecosystem with longer history.

kuschkuOP1y ago

Which rich cross-platform GUI frameworks are you talking about?

Win32? Silverlight/Blend? XAML? MAUI? They're all windows only.

Gtk? Qt? Sure, they exist, but they're ancient and limited to long outdated paradigms.

I don't know if you can get QtQuick with KDE Kirigami to work on .NET, otherwise that might be one option.

Kotlin Multiplatform is btw a solution for building the same code for kotlin native, JVM and web to target all the OSes at the same time.

While Jetpack Compose is the Android Version of Compose, Compose Multiplatform is Compose for Kotlin Multiplatform.

> subject to the quirks and specifics of JVM implementations, build-systems and package management

That's a massive advantage over the arcane package management and build systems of .NET

Very few languages ever achieve a build and package management system as mature and usable as the Java ecosystem.

I've been waiting for 12 years for .NET to match Java's ecosystem, and it's still not there yet.

neonsunset1y ago

There are more than 10 sibling and gp comments that exhaustively address the GUI and other questions :)

> That's a massive advantage over the arcane package management and build systems of .NET. Very few languages ever achieve a build and package management system as mature and usable as the Java ecosystem. I've been waiting for 12 years for .NET to match Java's ecosystem, and it's still not there yet.

If you want to sell me on "advantages" of invoking Gradle or Maven over

    dotnet new web
    dotnet run
    curl localhost:port

    dotnet new console --aot
    echo 'Console.WriteLine($"Right now is {DateTime.Now}");' > Program.cs
    dotnet publish -o {here goes the executable}

    dotnet add package {my favourite package}

I suppose you would actually need 12 years of improvements given how slow if ever these things get resolved in Java land.

Also, what's up with Oracle suing companies for using incorrect JDK distribution that happens to come with hidden license strings attached?

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hermitdev1y ago

> Which rich cross-platform GUI frameworks are you talking about? > Win32? Silverlight/Blend? XAML? MAUI? They're all windows only.

MAUI is not windows only. I have a MAUI app on my android phone. Cross-platform? yes. Rich? Now, I wouldn't call it that.

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