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0 pointsshprd1y ago0 comments

It's not new, Matt has been trying to reach an agreement for years.[1] To be fair, he has done everything he can for the health of the ecosystem for all these years.

WP Engine leech off the WordPress brand from head to toe. Literally, from trademark to infrastructure, while Automattic covers the bill for the most part.

Of course, legally, WPE doesn't have to contribute beyond its mouth but if we are going down that route then also Automattic doesn't have to put up with funding WPE operation anymore.

I'm tired of people justifying WPE attitude and behavior by saying "legally, they don't have to contribute", well let's talk legal, everything happening to them is within those same lines too. Why are you complaining if it's legal?

This is one of those "fuck around and find out" situation. Matt just run out of fucks to give, and decided it's better to teach the bully a lesson even if it comes at a cost.

[1] https://youtu.be/H6F0PgMcKWM

0 comments

aimazon1y ago

You're citing Matt but Matt has been proven to be untrustworthy. For example, his claim of many year long negotiations includes a claim that he had delivered a term sheet to WP Engine in May, but that claim was disproven by himself, no such term sheet was delivered. Additionally, the contributions that he counts from WP Engine are only those included in the "Five for the Future" program which Matt administrates. The actual contributions of WP Engine to the ecosystem include millions of dollars per year on event sponsorship, plugin development (WPGraphQL, ACF) and more.

Read the lawsuit filed by WP Engine. No such negotiations existed. Matt has been arguing with WP Engine in his head. You may believe WP Engine's contributions to WordPress are disproportionately small for their size but make that argument on the basis of accurate information, not the fiction from Matt.

Nobody likes WP Engine but Matt's lying has been so problematic that it is impossible to take his side unless you believe that integrity is optional.

shprdOP1y ago

> millions of dollars per year on event sponsorship

Are you for real? Event sponsorship is part of the marketing budget. They're there to promote their company among competitors. It's a universal business expense.

> plugin development ACF

ACF is their own asset

I mentioned this in my comment, they don't contribute significantly beyond their mouth. What you came with are just the receipts for what I said.

_fjg81y ago

And Automattic's control over WordPress is part of their "marketing" budget. Let's not forget how valuable the exclusive commercial license for the WordPress trademark is to Automattic, their ability to use the WordPress.com domain has huge commercial value to them. I have no doubt that WP Engine would pay tens of millions of dollars per year for the exclusive commercial license to the WordPress trademark which is tens of millions that could be funnelled to the WordPress Foundation, which is tens of millions more than Automattic spend. Ask yourself how Matt justifies Automattic spending millions of dollars per year on hosting WordPress.org and millions of dollars on the 100+ staff Automattic have working on WordPress.org.

We can't pick and choose which contributions are valid and which aren't. WP Engine spend money on the development of WPGraphQL a free plugin, WP Engine spend money on the development of Advanced Custom Fields which they release for free for millions of WordPress sites to use... of course they're not doing that out of some altruistic moral crusade, of course it's a clear calculus about the benefit to their bottom line, but that doesn't change that they're contributing.

The "Five for the Future" contributions are specifically about contributing to WordPress Core, which is owned and controlled by Matt Mullenweg: you're playing into Matt's absurd narrative that the only valid contribution is one that is made to something under Matt's control.

I think WP Engine are Private Equity leeches, I have zero doubt about that, I wish that they were to contribute more but that's the deal with Open Source software, that's what we choose to allow by releasing Open Source software. The moral obligation we have when we use Open Source software is to respect the license, Matt had the choice about the license to release WordPress under, he made the choice for it to be GPL.

dhh is more eloquent and authoritative than I, read these if you need further convincing:

https://world.hey.com/dhh/automattic-is-doing-open-source-di...

https://world.hey.com/dhh/open-source-royalty-and-mad-kings-...

2 more replies

chiefalchemist1y ago

You don't see the non-premium version of ACF as contributing? I'm curious, why not?

WPE has other employees dedicated to WP and The Community. I'm not defending WPE but just because they don't contribute in a way MM wants doesn't mean they don't contribute. Suggesting they're not contributing is disingenuous.

Matt is not a dictator. Oh wait, scratch that.

p.s. Matt should be careful what he wishes for. If WPE or anyone contributes they're going to want a voice, a seat at the table. Is Matt willing to share control? If the answer is no, then that is the root problem here.

1 more reply

mthoms1y ago

There are well-established legal processes for resolving issues like trademark infringement. This dispute could have, and should have, been resolved without involving… literally everyone.

shprdOP1y ago

> There are well-established legal processes for resolving issues like trademark infringement.

Exactly, if that was the only thing WPE has leeched we wouldn't be here. They were tolerated for years but they kept digging more and more.

ImPostingOnHN1y ago

> They were tolerated for years

This sounds like dictator speak. "Tolerated" by who? The community embraced them, it's matt and his private-equity-associated, for-profit corporation that didn't like their success.

Should matt have such a veto power over what the community wants? Put another way, the community has tolerated matt's behavior, but he keeps digging more and more – how do we stop his bad behavior?

1 more reply

chiefalchemist1y ago

Yup. Conclusion: It's not about trademarks.

It's about ego.

It's about money.

perks2821y ago

Some folks on this list spewing out misinformation, perhaps because of personal interests in WPE. Matt has done more than any of us to create and preserve an amazing open-source ecosystem that we all benefit from. Can you imagine what it would be like if WPE controlled WP? The claims in WPE's lawsuit, as you'll see, are not facts.

philistine1y ago

You sound like those armchair communists who feel they need to agree with Stalin because he was a communist too. You know, a person doing evil things for the right reasons is still doing evil things.

shprdOP1y ago

You got the wrong idea. What I care about is open source and fight back against those encouraging to take without contributing. Yes you don't have to give back, the same way you don't have to be nice, but promoting that you intentionally commit NOT to contribute and wear that badge proudly is stupid and harmful.

I don't care about specific individual or technology since I don't use WordPress and I'm not in that business to begin with but these discussions are spreading the wrong message and values.

Please make sure you're contributing to the discussion in the future, not just attacking people based on your limited view.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

aimazon1y ago

Nobody likes WP Engine but Matt's lying has been so problematic that it is impossible to take his side unless you believe that integrity is optional.

shprdOP1y ago

> millions of dollars per year on event sponsorship

Are you for real? Event sponsorship is part of the marketing budget. They're there to promote their company among competitors. It's a universal business expense.

> plugin development ACF

ACF is their own asset

I mentioned this in my comment, they don't contribute significantly beyond their mouth. What you came with are just the receipts for what I said.

_fjg81y ago

dhh is more eloquent and authoritative than I, read these if you need further convincing:

https://world.hey.com/dhh/automattic-is-doing-open-source-di...

https://world.hey.com/dhh/open-source-royalty-and-mad-kings-...

2 more replies

chiefalchemist1y ago

You don't see the non-premium version of ACF as contributing? I'm curious, why not?

Matt is not a dictator. Oh wait, scratch that.

1 more reply

mthoms1y ago

There are well-established legal processes for resolving issues like trademark infringement. This dispute could have, and should have, been resolved without involving… literally everyone.

shprdOP1y ago

> There are well-established legal processes for resolving issues like trademark infringement.

Exactly, if that was the only thing WPE has leeched we wouldn't be here. They were tolerated for years but they kept digging more and more.

ImPostingOnHN1y ago

> They were tolerated for years

This sounds like dictator speak. "Tolerated" by who? The community embraced them, it's matt and his private-equity-associated, for-profit corporation that didn't like their success.

1 more reply

chiefalchemist1y ago

Yup. Conclusion: It's not about trademarks.

It's about ego.

It's about money.

perks2821y ago

philistine1y ago

You sound like those armchair communists who feel they need to agree with Stalin because he was a communist too. You know, a person doing evil things for the right reasons is still doing evil things.

shprdOP1y ago

I don't care about specific individual or technology since I don't use WordPress and I'm not in that business to begin with but these discussions are spreading the wrong message and values.

Please make sure you're contributing to the discussion in the future, not just attacking people based on your limited view.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse