Hours of phone calls to insurance and hospital later, we think we have it resolved but are informed it may take up to 6 weeks to process. Fine, we wait six weeks. Hospital starts threatening to send us to collections for non-payment. Hours of phone calls later it turns out they were waiting on information from insurance that they never received. So six phone calls later we think we've gotten it all sorted out. This time people actually follow through, hospital switches our payment to pending and that's the last we heard of it. Got confirmation that insurance paid out several months later.
Again, the hospital messed up the paperwork, but the burden of solving the problem falls on us, with serious financial consequences if we don't. While we're dealing with a newborn no less. There should really be a law that makes institutions liable for such errors.
Also insurance was a little shady as well. The amount of the outstanding bill should have pushed us over our out-of-pocket-max for the year, but when they finally paid out they marked it as an "adjustment". Which means we're still in the coinsurance part of plan. So we're getting deeply discounted healthcare for the rest of the year, but not free. It's not worth the time for us to run down, and maybe they're doing everything in line with the fine print, but it definitely smells rotten.
Does there need to be an explicit law?
Could one sue in small-claims court for the time and expense damages?
(volunteer patient advocate)
My dad passed away from cancer over 20 years ago, and this was Aetna's plan even then. Each claim followed the exact same process of deny, approve but pay only pay a fraction, and then finally pay the correct amount. Literally every single claim. My mom built an automation in Excel to track the calls for each claim and to prompt her at the various time intervals required to follow up at each phase.
Personally, I experienced this went I went to the ER with acute abdominal pain and ended up having emergency surgery within a few hours. Naturally, Aetna tried to deny that my ER visit was an actual emergency. On the phone with the rep, I asked them if they new of any non-emergency situations where someone was able to have a surgery scheduled only 4 hours in advance. They agreed that it was an emergency and promptly paid $8k of the $16k bill. After another call several months later, they paid all but $800.
It is never based on quality care, but on increasing friction and pain in the system in order to minimize payments out of money already collected from patients. It is a criminal racket and nothing makes me angrier in my entire practice.
Does anyone know if this service exists? E.g. if they deny, you don't even talk to them, you forward it straight to your insurance insurance and their lawyer instantly threatens to sue them?
I cannot speak to how effective these services are. My general experience with "proxy" services have not been great, due to inadequate care or training.
[1] https://www.healthadvocate.com/site/product-index/engagement...
It's the societal version of Kurt Vonnegut Jr's "dynamic tension." Just muscles pulling against muscles for their own sake, with no actual work getting done. Surely this is a recipe for downfall.
Second, and as a commentor here reminds, patients are often on the line for money (accountability) when the axis of control (the other side of same coin) is between the hospital and insurer.
Every time accountability is separated from control you've get big problems, and incentives to do the wrong thing.
Variations include providers over billing, billing wrong procedure etc. or denying claims on the other side.
All that stuff is done electronically between the provider and insurer (an axis of control) without the insured ever even knowing. Thus bad providers see the patient's policy like a wallet found on the ground.
Contrast with most commercial transactions: the service provider has no/none/zero access to any customer money directly or indirectly. All the provider can do is bill the customer (with an itemized bill). This way the customer decides if they part with money instead of the provider helping themselves to money.
I could add my own horror stories .. but will not waste your time.
I would love to see in the next 20 years,
- accurate itemized bills from hospitals/providers
- bills submitted to patients and only patients. Provider access to patient's insurance cutoff.
- patients if they agree electronically submit to their insurance giving them incentive to not commit fraud and use their benefits smartly
- providers and insurers who mostly work between each other put the insured in the center of the picture
- which requires providers and insurers to simplify and bring their business practice more in line with everybody else.
Yes, health care billing is more complicated than buying a car or upgrading your bathroom, but I harbor the suspicion that patients can do a lot more and insurance people act like it's impenetrable through self inflicted and self injected complexity.
So if they are making medical decisions, why aren’t they liable for the consequences? Sometimes the “peer” denying care doesn’t even have a medical license!
Of course, I couldn't afford both the Health Share and real insurance, so I took the risk. But it soon became apparent that I was in over my head.
I barely understood the whole insurance claims/billing process. I had not been too involved, since Medicaid coverage had made a lot of that effortless and invisible.
So I had to learn about all these billing practices, and what's more, the Health Share had their own terminology that was parallel, but not equivalent, to insurance terminology. Thankfully, they published a detailed Lexicon document, in addition to their Sharing Guidelines.
All claims (Medical Needs) were manual. No providers would directly bill the HSM. The bills they sent to me were useless for this purpose. I needed to cajole each provider into generating an itemized "SuperBill" with all the info required for the HSM. Then I'd submit it to the HSM and literally pray.
I put up with this for a couple of years. I heard from other people how draining it was to deal with all this. So I finally withdrew. Now I carry regular Marketplace insurance.
But I'm descending into a hellscape of bureaucracy, and I'm scared of it. For years I've been trying to advocate for my health and reduce my health care costs by refusing unnecessary treatments that were making me sicker, and worsening my conditions.
But the insurance company seems hell bent on sending me on fool's errands and wild goose chases. For example, I didn't receive any billing communication for two months. Then, AutoPay failed last month. They sent me incorrectly-worded warning notices. I went around and around with CSRs about this. Finally we kicked the can down the road. They assured me that my insurance wouldn't terminate as it had been threatened.
But now my PCP's office is coming back to me with denials from 6 months ago. I'm tearing my hair out. Indeed, why do I need to be in the loop? They are filing claims. Their billing department needs to work this out. I'm powerless to tell my [ex-]insurance carrier what to do. I already sent them proof of coverage! Leave me alone!
It's a nightmare, and I predict that it will eventually eat my entire life. Many elderly people are slaves to their physicians and specialists and medications. My own parents are on a constant treadmill of doctor's appointments, every week, blood draws, ridiculously complex medication rituals.
My sanity and faith in Christ is worth far more than cooperation with these mendacious, lying, thieving swine. Mark my words.
I’m sorry you’re having so many troubles with your insurance. I hope it gets resolved.