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0 pointsfamahar1y ago0 comments

This strong need to be accepted by a whole country is something I see mentioned a lot by a particular group of people that have never really been "othered" in their life. Coming to Japan is quite a shock for them because they experience being a minority for the first time in their lives. I was born in Canada and have dealt with micro-aggresions and blatant racism my whole life there. Living in Japan I can say I feel no strong desire or care to be accepted. I'm not here to win over the acceptance of a country. I live my own life quietly with the small group of strong friends and community that do accept me. I'm perfectly happy and would definitely be much less happy if my goal was to be seen as Japanese (with all the rules that this also entails). Integration to me is simply respecting everyone. There really is no big song and dance needed to be seen as the "accepted foreigner". Just live your life.

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autumnstwilight1y ago

I don't really get why people always say "no matter how long you live in Japan, Japanese people will never truly see you as Japanese." Yeah, okay, but also no matter how long I live in Japan, telling other people from my home country that I'm Japanese now would seem kinda ridiculous and probably not be taken seriously. I don't think of myself as "Japanese". Seems odd to single out Japanese people as uniquely discriminatory here. (Of course, "Japanese" meaning both a nationality and and ethnicity is significant factor here, I might have more complicated feelings if I was of Japanese descent).

I speak the language reasonably well and generally don't feel excluded or disrespected at work or socially. People acknowledge that I'm from a different cultural background because I am. I don't feel the need to "be Japanese".

j_timberlake1y ago

Meanwhile if you spent 15 years in Canada and got Canadian citizenship, no one would care if you started calling yourself Canadian, unless you're a really bad culture fit.

autumnstwilight1y ago

I think it would be similar in Australia, where I'm from, but different in any country where "nationality" and "linguistic/cultural/ethnic background" are synonymous for most people. Most of us wouldn't call an American dude living in Thailand for 20 years "a Thai person" either. The "you can't become Japanese" thing often gets held up as an example of unique or unusually strong Japanese xenophobia, and I don't think it's particularly unusual, though we (humans in general) could probably afford to get more precise about our thinking with regard to nationality vs ethnicity.

enteeentee1y ago

“No matter how long you live in Japan… “ bit more like even if you are born in Japan with a non-Japanese heritage you will never be Japanese.

There are people born in Japan, raised in Japan that aren’t considered ok Japanese. Some don’t consider themselves Japanese because that’s the cultural norm.

Many other people in other countries would consider themselves a citizen of that country if born there. Japan is different.

https://youtu.be/oLt5qSm9U80

Neonlicht1y ago

Tolerance sounds good on paper but it can so easily become complete and utter indifference. And you should never make the mistake of thinking that it implies respect. I know deeply unhappy expats in Amsterdam who are faced with such an English speaking but very cold and alien society. The globalisation lie is that the world is the same everywhere.

germandiago1y ago

We were talking about integration. If you are happy more or less ghettoing yourself that is right.

But we were talking about being accepted. It os really difficult to be accepted in japanese circles as one more. But it is not the case, for example, in Spain in comparison.

I was not talking about having the apprpval of others. I do not really care. But in order to get integrated there are cultures that are really flexible, others are more stiff and others it is almost impossible.

famaharOP1y ago

All it takes is speaking the language fluently. Hard but this mystery behind integration isn't complex. So much of the culture is expressed through language. Sound native and you will be treated as native (for better and worse)

PlattypusRex1y ago

There's plenty of small businesses in Japan that straight-up ask you to leave at the door if you look foreign, despite being fluent.

A lot of landlords refuse to rent to any non-Japanese people, despite being fluent.

A xenophobic society won't even let you participate fully, much less integrate, no matter how well you speak the language.

busterarm1y ago

It's rare but you will still occasionally be denied services in restaurant regardless of how well you speak the language.

Or even if you speak to people in Japanese they will try to speak to you in English.

germandiago1y ago

I really believe it is not the case. It would go a long way but it is not enough. The ethnicity is also important.

bluepizza1y ago

Japanese people have trouble being accepted in circles of Japanese people.

onetokeoverthe1y ago

exactly. the tamade checkout lady saying my hair is kawaii is enough acceptance.

but i wish whoever haunts craigslist japan did not constantly remove my language exchange posts.

zenel1y ago

strikingly good observation, as another minority Canadian

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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autumnstwilight1y ago

j_timberlake1y ago

Meanwhile if you spent 15 years in Canada and got Canadian citizenship, no one would care if you started calling yourself Canadian, unless you're a really bad culture fit.

autumnstwilight1y ago

enteeentee1y ago

“No matter how long you live in Japan… “ bit more like even if you are born in Japan with a non-Japanese heritage you will never be Japanese.

There are people born in Japan, raised in Japan that aren’t considered ok Japanese. Some don’t consider themselves Japanese because that’s the cultural norm.

Many other people in other countries would consider themselves a citizen of that country if born there. Japan is different.

https://youtu.be/oLt5qSm9U80

Neonlicht1y ago

germandiago1y ago

We were talking about integration. If you are happy more or less ghettoing yourself that is right.

But we were talking about being accepted. It os really difficult to be accepted in japanese circles as one more. But it is not the case, for example, in Spain in comparison.

famaharOP1y ago

PlattypusRex1y ago

There's plenty of small businesses in Japan that straight-up ask you to leave at the door if you look foreign, despite being fluent.

A lot of landlords refuse to rent to any non-Japanese people, despite being fluent.

A xenophobic society won't even let you participate fully, much less integrate, no matter how well you speak the language.

busterarm1y ago

It's rare but you will still occasionally be denied services in restaurant regardless of how well you speak the language.

Or even if you speak to people in Japanese they will try to speak to you in English.

germandiago1y ago

I really believe it is not the case. It would go a long way but it is not enough. The ethnicity is also important.

bluepizza1y ago

Japanese people have trouble being accepted in circles of Japanese people.

onetokeoverthe1y ago

exactly. the tamade checkout lady saying my hair is kawaii is enough acceptance.

but i wish whoever haunts craigslist japan did not constantly remove my language exchange posts.

zenel1y ago

strikingly good observation, as another minority Canadian

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse