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0 pointsensignavenger1y ago0 comments

So you want a web framework that dictates how you structure your application code? I think one of Django's strengths is that if a component doesn't work well for the application you are building, you are always free to choose something else. If the default Django app structure doesn't work well for you, you can pick any structure that does. Though I would argue that the default structure is exactly what the vast majority of web applications need.

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globular-toast1y ago

No, I want a web framework that is just a web framework. The web is just an entrypoint to an application, like a CLI or GUI. If you use something like Flask or Pyramid this is exactly what you get. They are roughly analogous to something like Qt. Something that sits at the edge of an application converting low-level user input into high-level commands and events etc.

You could use Django like this, but you'd end up manually mapping between Django models and high-level domain models. But this mapping is exactly what an ORM like SQLAlchemy does! It seems crazy to do it yourself. So nobody does. They build fat models with all the business logic right next to application logic like foreign keys etc.

Even if you did try to do something different developers would complain that it's no longer a "Django project". Have you ever seen any Django project do business logic completely independently of application logic?

ensignavengerOP1y ago

So then your answer is simple- just like in Flask, put the function wherever it makes sense for your application and desired architecture.

If you really prefer SQLAlchemy, there is nothing stopping you from using it over the Django ORM, I happen to prefer the Django ORM, but Django doesn't get jealous if you go out with a different ORM (it is a polyamorious web framework[1]).

Yes, I have seen Django applications do that. There are plenty of individuals out there advocating such a separation. I wouldn't worry about these "different developers' and their opinions.

[1] I was going to use a smiley face here, but then I recalled that a Python dev was de-flocked recently for using smiley emoji as it is offensive to some individuals, so insert whatever words or symbols you don't find offensive that indicate humor instead.

globular-toast1y ago

Again, I'm not saying you can't do this with Django, I'm saying it makes it much harder than it should be.

Using Django without its ORM really doesn't seem attractive. I'm really not sure what you'd be getting from Django at that point. Crap templates, views that aren't views. The ORM is the only good bit of Django. Well, that and the package ecosystem.

The more I think about it the more I realise it's that last point that is the real attraction.

Also please don't worry about offending me. I come from the old internet ;)

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globular-toast1y ago

ensignavengerOP1y ago

So then your answer is simple- just like in Flask, put the function wherever it makes sense for your application and desired architecture.

Yes, I have seen Django applications do that. There are plenty of individuals out there advocating such a separation. I wouldn't worry about these "different developers' and their opinions.

globular-toast1y ago

Again, I'm not saying you can't do this with Django, I'm saying it makes it much harder than it should be.

The more I think about it the more I realise it's that last point that is the real attraction.

Also please don't worry about offending me. I come from the old internet ;)

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