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0 pointsbhelkey1y ago0 comments

> The cloud uses a lot of energy. They can use renewable energy but they aren't.

Do you have a source for that? In 2022, 64% of Google's data center energy was carbon free [1]. I was not able to find similar numbers for Microsoft or Amazon, but they have significant green energy investments as well [2][3].

My perception is that Google is the leader in this space but I don't have data to back that up.

[1] https://sustainability.google/progress/energy/

[2] https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/explore/global-infrastruct...

[3] https://aws.amazon.com/sustainability/

0 comments

jeffbee1y ago

I think Apple is, partly because they outsource a lot of their energy to the other clouds, partly because they have stronger PPAs with actual solar power plants.

bhelkeyOP1y ago

According to statista, the leaders in cloud marketshare are (in order): AWS, Azure, and GCP [1]. I don't believe Apple has any significant cloud offering.

There is a question about the sustainability of consumer electronic devices but that's a whole different can of worms. As an aside, I appreciate how Apple pioneered long support commitments in phones.

[1] https://www.statista.com/chart/18819/worldwide-market-share-...

jeffbee1y ago

Apple does have four large data centers in America and one in Europe. Their first-party datacenter energy footprint is about 10% as large as Google's, and they claim to have 100% renewable inputs. This is a brilliant PR strategy because Apple is a huge customer of GCP, AWS, and Azure for cloud storage and other cloud services on behalf of their users, but all that energy shows up on Google's, Amazon's, and Microsoft's sustainability reports.

eesmith1y ago

FWIW, at 6:28 of the linked-to video is a bar chart of CO2 emissions for Google and how it is increasing due to integrating AI into their products.

Source is Google’s 2024 Environmental Report at https://sustainability.google/reports/google-2024-environmen...

"In 2023, our total GHG emissions increased 13% year-over-year, partially driven by a 37% year-over-year increase in our Scope 2 (market-based) emissions."

I see it uses "Carbon removal credits to neutralize our residual emissions". I think carbon credits are a scam. Just like how using 1 GWhr of power in the US while buying 1 GWhr of power in New Zealand, and calling that 100% renewable energy purchasing, would also be a scam.

In any case, suppose it was all 100% clean energy all throughout, with no carbon credits at all.

What that means is that Google can use it's monopoly/market dominance to outbid other users.

What, you can't afford clean power at the rate that Google can pay, so you've got to run your CPAP machine on fossil fuels? You should be ashamed of ruining the planet like that.

bhelkeyOP1y ago

In 2023 highlights your link says: " We maintained 64% carbon- free energy, on average, across every grid where we operate—even as our electricity use increased."

eesmith1y ago

Yes, and ..?

The terms 'using more carbon-free power' and 'using more fossil power' are not exclusive.

Their CO2 emissions are increasing, and that's all that matters.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 pointsbhelkey1y ago0 comments

> The cloud uses a lot of energy. They can use renewable energy but they aren't.

My perception is that Google is the leader in this space but I don't have data to back that up.

[1] https://sustainability.google/progress/energy/

[2] https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/explore/global-infrastruct...

[3] https://aws.amazon.com/sustainability/

0 comments

jeffbee1y ago

I think Apple is, partly because they outsource a lot of their energy to the other clouds, partly because they have stronger PPAs with actual solar power plants.

bhelkeyOP1y ago

According to statista, the leaders in cloud marketshare are (in order): AWS, Azure, and GCP [1]. I don't believe Apple has any significant cloud offering.

[1] https://www.statista.com/chart/18819/worldwide-market-share-...

jeffbee1y ago

eesmith1y ago

FWIW, at 6:28 of the linked-to video is a bar chart of CO2 emissions for Google and how it is increasing due to integrating AI into their products.

Source is Google’s 2024 Environmental Report at https://sustainability.google/reports/google-2024-environmen...

"In 2023, our total GHG emissions increased 13% year-over-year, partially driven by a 37% year-over-year increase in our Scope 2 (market-based) emissions."

In any case, suppose it was all 100% clean energy all throughout, with no carbon credits at all.

What that means is that Google can use it's monopoly/market dominance to outbid other users.

What, you can't afford clean power at the rate that Google can pay, so you've got to run your CPAP machine on fossil fuels? You should be ashamed of ruining the planet like that.

bhelkeyOP1y ago

In 2023 highlights your link says: " We maintained 64% carbon- free energy, on average, across every grid where we operate—even as our electricity use increased."

eesmith1y ago

Yes, and ..?

The terms 'using more carbon-free power' and 'using more fossil power' are not exclusive.

Their CO2 emissions are increasing, and that's all that matters.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse