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0 pointssilisili1y ago0 comments

Since I've been asked a thousand times by leftists, I'll try to answer. I feel like at least the right recognizes they're going further right.

> Democrats have moved to the right on topics like border control and immigration

Yes, because it's become such an apparent clusterfk they had no choice but to. It's not much different than a child covered in Nutella, with Nutella all over the table and floor telling their parents maybe no more Nutella. It wasn't a policy shift, it's attempting to save face. To this day some areas are claiming to be sanctuary and will fight it all.

Trans issues. Men in women's sports, tampons in men's bathrooms. Sex ed in elementary school? Kid's books about gay or trans parents and sex. Kids on puberty blockers? All would seem insane to Carter democrats.

DEI. BLM. Affirmative action The whole equity explanation and movement. To my knowledge, they still want reparations, which are hugely unpopular.

Economy. UBI? The whole antiwork movement? The open rise of communists/socialists in citizens.

Biden and Kamala are pretty far right of the left, as many pointed out. It doesn't mean the left as a whole isn't moving further left.

Maybe to leftists things feel like they are moving right, but they absolutely aren't. The candidates representing them, poorly, are trying to salvage any votes they can and shy away from the movement of the members at large because they know they're not popular.

Trump is in many ways the same. Well, I have no idea what he is, he's a smooth talker and probably far to the left of whatever the MAGA movement is. Which is itself moving continually to the extreme right, to some fanfare.

People will probably link to some enlightened centrist meme. I don't care. I don't think I'm smarter or know policy better than anyone. I mostly want to be left alone, and draw ideas from both sides. I think the base for each is moving further apart. I don't care if it's downvoted, don't tell me my own eyes deceive me.

Edit: Please don't waste energy telling me why I'm wrong. I'm used to it. I likely won't read it. Read the end of the last paragraph again.

0 comments

foota1y ago

I strongly disagree with most of what you've said, but I think more meta, this comment is not constructive (in so much as politics/ideology is supposed to be avoided anyway), in particular I don't think posting a rant and telling people you don't care what they have to say is good.

In particular, "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

silisiliOP1y ago

I agree. Thanks for calling me out.

I'd meant to indicate I was answering a question without interest in further political debate, but it came across very dismissive. Apologies.

swat5351y ago

Ironically you didn’t write a thoughtful and substantive comment whereas parent clearly expressed his opinion in detail. If you disagree with any of his points, which you clearly do, I suggest that you share them so we can have a conversation instead.

I’m not even American but just making a note as an outside observer.

foota1y ago

I didn't comment on them because one, there's a lot there, and two, they said they didn't want to have a debate.

I guess in hindsight they weren't even necessarily stating their positions on these things (although I think the way some of it is talked about is revealing).

Honestly I don't even know that I disagree that the left has moved left, but I don't think I'd express it without some major caveats, because politics feels very convoluted right now.

Generally, I think id agree that the democratic parties positions haven't shifted much and that there's a greater visibility of things I'd consider far left, but I don't know to what degree these are just shifts in visibility and how closely tied the party is to the base, vs which are actually tied to underlying changes in views.

InsideOutSanta1y ago

The trans topic is a wedge issue that has absolutely no impact on 99% of people. Many of the things people like to bring up when complaining about "a shift to the left" are fringe ideas even on the left, and are amplified by right-wingers who are trying to paint the left as out of touch with reality.

Having said that, age-appropriate sex ed in elementary school (e.g. talking about bodily autonomy and consent) is actually a good idea, since children at that age are often victims of sexual abuse and don't understand exactly what is happening to them.

And if you genuinely get bent out of shape about tampons in mens bathrooms, I'm really happy for you. Your life must be genuinely amazing that something so meaningless even warrants being mentioned as a point of contention. Personally, as somebody who sometimes purchases tampons for his wife, it seems at best marginally useful, and at worst completely irrelevant to me.

The economy topic is hardly a left-wing issue. People on the right cheered for Luigi just as much as people on the left, because they're suffering just as much, or more. What is happening here is not the left moving to the left, it's poor people being disenfranchised and reacting to it. This is also a major reason why Trump got elected: people have so little trust in the current system that they'd rather vote for somebody who promises to break it, than for somebody who promises to improve it.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "communists/socialists", since those two words have been stripped of all meaning in the US.

"It wasn't a policy shift, it's attempting to save face"

You're just using different words, but you're saying the same thing I did: it's a shift to the right. It's also dumb and counterproductive, because immigration is not the source of people's problems, and curtailing immigration in the way it is currently being done will only make things worse, but that is besides the point.

unitol1y ago

> The trans topic is a wedge issue that has absolutely no impact on 99% of people.

The idea of "gender identity" as based on a subjective inner sense of self, and that "gender identity" must supersede sex, fundamentally reframes a core characteristic of the entire human population.

When implemented in law and policy, this affects everyone.

The impact is mostly on women and girls, for whom female-only spaces are essential for their safety and dignity. Allowing any man who says he's a women into such spaces undermines the very reason they exist in the first place, and effectively destroys them.

This isn't progress; it harms women and girls. It shouldn't be a surprise why so many people are against such changes being imposed.

TheOtherHobbes1y ago

But dying because a fatally unhealthy pregnancy can't be terminated, or being forced to carry a rape pregnancy to term, or being denied contraception, or being shot in a classroom doesn't harm women and girls?

Your priorities might be considered a little slanted.

Gender identity is used by the right because - like most sex-related issues - it's emotive and triggering. It's a single issue dog whistle.

Given the evidence, there is no reason to believe that anyone who uses it for political gain actually cares about women or girls.

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InsideOutSanta1y ago

"The impact is mostly on women and girls, for whom female-only spaces are essential for their safety and dignity."

This is an inherently self-contradictory position, because it implies that trans men must be forced into women's spaces.

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mulmen1y ago

> This is also a major reason why Trump got elected: people have so little trust in the current system that they'd rather vote for somebody who promises to break it, than for somebody who promises to improve it.

I agree this is what appears to have happened but I still can’t follow the logic. What happens next? Who builds the next system and why should we expect it will be any better?

InsideOutSanta1y ago

My impression is that a lot of people are just hoping for everything to go to hell to the point where fundamental changes become inevitable, and they're assuming that these fundamental changes will likely be beneficial to them.

I'm not sure if this is evidence of how bad people think the status quo is, or if it is evidence of how naive most people are.

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0 pointssilisili1y ago0 comments

Since I've been asked a thousand times by leftists, I'll try to answer. I feel like at least the right recognizes they're going further right.

> Democrats have moved to the right on topics like border control and immigration

DEI. BLM. Affirmative action The whole equity explanation and movement. To my knowledge, they still want reparations, which are hugely unpopular.

Economy. UBI? The whole antiwork movement? The open rise of communists/socialists in citizens.

Biden and Kamala are pretty far right of the left, as many pointed out. It doesn't mean the left as a whole isn't moving further left.

Edit: Please don't waste energy telling me why I'm wrong. I'm used to it. I likely won't read it. Read the end of the last paragraph again.

0 comments

foota1y ago

In particular, "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

silisiliOP1y ago

I agree. Thanks for calling me out.

I'd meant to indicate I was answering a question without interest in further political debate, but it came across very dismissive. Apologies.

swat5351y ago

I’m not even American but just making a note as an outside observer.

foota1y ago

I didn't comment on them because one, there's a lot there, and two, they said they didn't want to have a debate.

I guess in hindsight they weren't even necessarily stating their positions on these things (although I think the way some of it is talked about is revealing).

Honestly I don't even know that I disagree that the left has moved left, but I don't think I'd express it without some major caveats, because politics feels very convoluted right now.

InsideOutSanta1y ago

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "communists/socialists", since those two words have been stripped of all meaning in the US.

"It wasn't a policy shift, it's attempting to save face"

unitol1y ago

> The trans topic is a wedge issue that has absolutely no impact on 99% of people.

The idea of "gender identity" as based on a subjective inner sense of self, and that "gender identity" must supersede sex, fundamentally reframes a core characteristic of the entire human population.

When implemented in law and policy, this affects everyone.

This isn't progress; it harms women and girls. It shouldn't be a surprise why so many people are against such changes being imposed.

TheOtherHobbes1y ago

Your priorities might be considered a little slanted.

Gender identity is used by the right because - like most sex-related issues - it's emotive and triggering. It's a single issue dog whistle.

Given the evidence, there is no reason to believe that anyone who uses it for political gain actually cares about women or girls.

1 more reply

InsideOutSanta1y ago

"The impact is mostly on women and girls, for whom female-only spaces are essential for their safety and dignity."

This is an inherently self-contradictory position, because it implies that trans men must be forced into women's spaces.

1 more reply

mulmen1y ago

I agree this is what appears to have happened but I still can’t follow the logic. What happens next? Who builds the next system and why should we expect it will be any better?

InsideOutSanta1y ago

I'm not sure if this is evidence of how bad people think the status quo is, or if it is evidence of how naive most people are.

2 more replies

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse