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0 pointslikeabatterycar1y ago0 comments

> Those who generally agreed with efforts to improve the status quo and did what they could to help (started displaying their pronouns, tried to eliminate language that had deeply racist connotations, etc)

You're making the assumption that most of that isn't performative nonsense that in reality doesn't help anything.

Also known as slacktivism.

It got to the point where I would see pronouns and flags and URLs to DEI policies (Click here to stop racism now! Really?) in people's email signatures that I would immediately assume they were insincere and phony.

One person I knew had "LGBTQ Ally" in their professional signature. It's one step removed from writing I HAVE GAY FRIENDS and frankly I found it all really weird, fake, and reminiscent of 1940s Germany where people had to wear their pins to proclaim their allegiance. None of this has place in a professional setting.

0 comments

nox1011y ago

Google Maps allows you declare your allegiance. You can mark a business as LGBTQ+ friendly (why should I have to declare that and it not just be assumed?).

https://blog.google/outreach-initiatives/small-business/addi...

You can also declare a business as "woman owned/led"

https://blog.google/outreach-initiatives/small-business/empo...

and "black owned"

https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/31/21348990/google-black-own...

Shared4041y ago

So, I'm very visibly queer and from the south. I have always been appreciative of gestures like this or in the parent comment - because it is not a safe thing there to assume that people would be accepting.

vineyardmike1y ago

> why should I have to declare that and it not just be assumed?

That’s an easy question with an easy answer.

Because it can’t be assumed. Because there are people (who own businesses) who are not friendly to LGBTQ+ people. And people (such as LGBTQ people) may want to find or avoid certain places.

Is a good-faith interpretation of such a signal that it would be some sort of silly performative measure?

neilk1y ago

I suggest you try steel-manning this. Imagine that the people who want these things have rational reasons for wanting them. What might they be?

1 more reply

_DeadFred_1y ago

https://www.queerty.com/wyoming-bar-calls-murder-gay-people-...

lodger1y ago

Thank you for posting this. For those who didn't click through, its an article headlined "Wyoming bar calls for murder of gay people as “cure for AIDS” and are selling it as merch", and shows a picture of the bar's horrifically bigoted t-shirt.

People who dismiss labels like "LGBTQ-friendly" as "performative moralism" (to use the term Paul Graham used multiple times in his article) have clearly never had their very existence threatened on a frequent basis simply because of who they are.

Unbefleckt1y ago

This stuff has always seemed deeply wrong to me, as someone that actually believed in the values I was told were right and proper.

astrange1y ago

Pronouns are pretty useful when you have a lot of Chinese and Indian coworkers and don't know what to call them by their names. People from HK tend to give themselves English names, but mainland Chinese I know don't.

Of course that's not their original purpose and they aren't very fit for their original purpose. (it's to include trans people, but trans women don't want you to ask what their pronouns are, they want to be addressed like women.)

eminio1y ago

> they want to be addressed like women

Yes but how are you supposed to know if an obvious male in 'feminine' type attire wants to be referred to as she/her unless you ask? Could just be a man with a niche fashion sense. See e.g. Grayson Perry.

antifa1y ago

> I found it all really weird, fake, and reminiscent of 1940s Germany where people had to wear their pins

did you know LGBT were explicitly targeted in the holocaust? You know about the holocaust, right? You are aware that 1940s Germany is when and where the holocaust happened, right?

skywhopper1y ago

Why a weird, distorted take. People who put “LGBTQ Ally” in their signatures aren’t being phony. They have friends or family who are LGBTQ, and being visible is one way to support them. If it’s unprofessional to be an ally to LGBTQ friends and family then it is easy for hateful folks to claim it’s unprofessional to even be LGBTQ. Why does it offend you so much for someone to say “I support my gay friends”?

likeabatterycarOP1y ago

It doesn't offend me.

Picture going into a restaurant, and before the hostess seats you she says "I'd like to remind you that I love black people".

That's out of place it is. It doesn't offend anyone, it's just an odd thing to say. You may not perceive it so if you're inside the bubble.

vineyardmike1y ago

> Picture going into a restaurant, and before the hostess seats you she says "I'd like to remind you that I love black people".

I’ve gone into a restaurant and had the hostess tell me they don’t serve gay people.

So I think it can be very contextually relevant for the hostess to say they’re an ally.

1 more reply

SauciestGNU1y ago

I think what you're not getting is that there are lots of places in rural America that are violently queerphobic. Queer people are targets of hate crimes. There's a mainstream religion and political party in America that's tiptoeing around rhetoric of eradication of queer people.

So yeah, it can't be assumed businesses are queer friendly because lots of American Christians and conservatives would prefer queer people dead, or at least back in the closet.

1 more reply

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nox1011y ago

Google Maps allows you declare your allegiance. You can mark a business as LGBTQ+ friendly (why should I have to declare that and it not just be assumed?).

https://blog.google/outreach-initiatives/small-business/addi...

You can also declare a business as "woman owned/led"

https://blog.google/outreach-initiatives/small-business/empo...

and "black owned"

https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/31/21348990/google-black-own...

Shared4041y ago

vineyardmike1y ago

> why should I have to declare that and it not just be assumed?

That’s an easy question with an easy answer.

Because it can’t be assumed. Because there are people (who own businesses) who are not friendly to LGBTQ+ people. And people (such as LGBTQ people) may want to find or avoid certain places.

Is a good-faith interpretation of such a signal that it would be some sort of silly performative measure?

neilk1y ago

I suggest you try steel-manning this. Imagine that the people who want these things have rational reasons for wanting them. What might they be?

1 more reply

_DeadFred_1y ago

https://www.queerty.com/wyoming-bar-calls-murder-gay-people-...

lodger1y ago

Unbefleckt1y ago

This stuff has always seemed deeply wrong to me, as someone that actually believed in the values I was told were right and proper.

astrange1y ago

eminio1y ago

> they want to be addressed like women

antifa1y ago

> I found it all really weird, fake, and reminiscent of 1940s Germany where people had to wear their pins

did you know LGBT were explicitly targeted in the holocaust? You know about the holocaust, right? You are aware that 1940s Germany is when and where the holocaust happened, right?

skywhopper1y ago

likeabatterycarOP1y ago

It doesn't offend me.

Picture going into a restaurant, and before the hostess seats you she says "I'd like to remind you that I love black people".

That's out of place it is. It doesn't offend anyone, it's just an odd thing to say. You may not perceive it so if you're inside the bubble.

vineyardmike1y ago

> Picture going into a restaurant, and before the hostess seats you she says "I'd like to remind you that I love black people".

I’ve gone into a restaurant and had the hostess tell me they don’t serve gay people.

So I think it can be very contextually relevant for the hostess to say they’re an ally.

1 more reply

SauciestGNU1y ago

So yeah, it can't be assumed businesses are queer friendly because lots of American Christians and conservatives would prefer queer people dead, or at least back in the closet.

1 more reply

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