[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhous...
Then there is the misconception that China doesn't care, but their cities are a lot greener and prepared for transitioning to green renewals than many west countries.
Simple air quality indices would disagree. And greener than who? Are you going to cherrypick cities and energy mixes?
You're still not offering a solution (carrot/stick) to "support" a solution.
Air quality and industrial pollutants are a good example. Right now, China is prioritizing industrial expansion and energy stability until they hit whatever targets they have in mind. They'll be talking about carbon and pollution publicly once they can shut down their coal plants without destabilizing the grid.
Deprioritizing is not caring. Saying otherwise is crazy!
China literally produces the most solar panels, electric cars, and batteries by far. In 2022 83% of new electricity generation in China was renewable (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42037497). That doesn't scream a country that "doesn't care".
They might be building a lot of new coal plants, but they aren't actually using them more than they already did (see above). Why would they waste their coal? They build more solar panels than they know what to do with, the sun is free, and they don't have NIMBY groups holding up construction.
Except not.
See this research showing that their domestic demand (ex-energy transition exports) is still massive and growing [0].
You're not alone as many on HN seem to have this misconception about greenwashing. The reality is different.
I'm saying the people who live there would emit the same amount whether they were 10 countries or 1. "China bad because total emissions" only comes up because they're 1 country.
> their domestic [energy] demand is still massive and growing
Of course that will happen as they develop their economy and improve their standard of living. But most of the new energy generation - 83% in 2022 - coming online is all renewable.
Would you suggest they don't develop, and remain poor? They'd be justified in saying "You first, rich Westerner". People in gigantic SUVs shouldn't throw stones at people in electric cars.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita
[1] As somebody has pointed out below - a lot of those Chinese emissions are ultimately produced for use in other countries. Places like the UK have simply shipped their emissions overseas - then complain about these countries rising emissions.
[0] https://dialogue.earth/en/climate/chinas-manufacturing-pushe...
> As somebody has pointed out below - a lot of those Chinese emissions are ultimately produced for use in other countries.
Not really. See domestic power demand growth for non-green applications. [0]
You are also forgetting total carbon emissions over the lifetime of a country - developed countries are responsible for a lot of the carbon in the atmosphere - and while developing countries might be catching up in day to day emissions they are nowhere in catching up in total emissions.
China is at 30% renewable energy. The US is at 21%. And the president of the dirtiest country in the world, lots of smart people are saying it, that's just what they call the US these days, they say, passed an executive order to ban new solar and wind power. Sad!
If China is using more renewables, then why are they producing way more GHG? See how this line of reasoning is flawed? This reality undermines your snark about having a higher % mix or per capita production, which is an incomplete rebuttal and serves greenwashing arguments.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/per-cap...
Some useful terminology for your journey.
Imagine you have a buffet. You have five people who each take 1 steak. Then you have one person who takes 4 steaks.
You are the person saying the one person taking 4 steaks is okay. The problem is the selfish four people who are eating 1 steak each. If they all stopped, the other guy could have 9 steaks.
Which is of course a silly proposition. The one guy could simply eat fewer steaks.
China is also the center of world manufacturing. The fact they make almost everything on earth but still have lower per capita emissions than the US is impressive.
But China on global warming
Second step do more as a country
Third step try to shame or encourage China and other countries into doing more
The US is still in the lead for total emissions historically and has a higher emissions per person. If it ignores it's responsibility it makes it very easy for China not to mention India or other lower total emissions countries to do the same.
China is doing something if not enough. The goal should not be trying to find a way to avoid responsibility because that's how you get all countries to avoid doing anything. The point is too keep pushing all countries starting with yours to to more
Do more? The US is buying pv panels produced on Chinese coal power. And no party is catching China's GHG productions.
Arguing cumulative historicals is playing into propaganda, and per capita? China is doing enough? They're building new coal plants! You can't be serious.
Did I say China was doing enough? No
Are they do enough?
Hell no
Is the US doing enough? Hell no
Arguing historicals and per capita plays into Chinese propaganda because there is some truth to it. There is also truth to the fact that China emits twice as much as the US and almost a third of the worlds emissions.
I don't like or trust the authorian dictatorship of China
But are you going to get China to emit less then they currently do by reversing the already inadequate measures the US is taking? No. We need to do much much more and get China and other countries to do more
If we use excuses of other countries to do less then so will they and we will all burn up together.
