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0 pointstensor1y ago0 comments

It's trivial to build synthetic reasoning datasets, likely even in natural languages. This is a well established technique that works (e.g. see Microsoft Phi, among others).

I said generally because there are things like adversarial training that use a ruleset to help generate correct datasets that work well. Outside of techniques like that it's not just a rule of thumb, it's always true that training on the output of another model will result in a worse model.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ai-generated-data...

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numba8881y ago

> it's always true that training on the output of another model will result in a worse model.

Not convincing.

You can imagine model doing some primitive thinking and coming to conclusion. Then you can train another model on summaries. If everything goes well it will be coming to conclusions quicker. That's at least. Or it may be able solve more complex problems with the same amount of 'thinking'. It will be self-propelled evolution.

Another option is to use one model to produce 'thinking' part from known outputs. Then train another to reproduce thinking to get the right output, unknown to it initially. Using humans to create such dataset would be slow and very expensive.

PS: if it was impossible humans would be still living on the trees.

tensorOP1y ago

Humans don't improve by "thinking." They improve my natural selection against a fitness function. If that fitness function is "doing better at math" then over a long time perhaps humans will get better at math.

These models don't evolve like they, there is not a random process of architectural evolution. Nor is there a fitness function anything like "get better at math."

A system like AlphaZero works because it has a rules to use as an oracle: the game rules. The game rules provide the new training information needed drive the process. Each game played produces new correct training data.

These LLMs have no such oracle. Their fitness function is and remains: predict the next word, followed by: produce text that makes a human happy. Note that it's not "produce text that makes ChatGPT happy."

numba8881y ago

it's more complicated than this. I mean what you get is defined by what you put in. At first is was random or selected internet garbage + books + docs. I.e. not designed for training. Than was tuning. Now we can use trained model to generate the data designed for training. With specific qualities, in this case reasoning. And train next model. Just intuitively it can be smaller and better at what we trained it for. I showed two options how data can be generated, there are others of course.

As for humans, assuming genetically they have the same intellectual abilities, you can see the difference in development of different groups. It's mostly defined by training the better next generation. Schools are exactly for this.

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numba8881y ago

> it's always true that training on the output of another model will result in a worse model.

Not convincing.

PS: if it was impossible humans would be still living on the trees.

tensorOP1y ago

These models don't evolve like they, there is not a random process of architectural evolution. Nor is there a fitness function anything like "get better at math."

numba8881y ago

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse