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0 pointsrandunel1y ago0 comments

You cannot buy a car in Europe without:

- lights permanently on ("safety", definitely not for your ability to get lost in the dark)

- continuously stores logs of speed, brakes, seatbelts, signal, vehicle inclination, GSM connection etc ("safety", called "black box" in Europe, also warns the driver when local speed limit exceeded)

- permanent GSM connection ("safety", definitely not for tracking, pinky promise!)

- continuously monitoring the driver's head/face ("safety", called driver drowsiness warning)

- engine turns off when stationary (the default setting can't be changed by the user, but by a car service with the right tools)

- car brakes on its own ("safety", but it's so bad I turn it off every time I power it on, it brakes when someone nearby but not right in front of you slows down, cannot be disabled permanently)

- signals left/right at least 3 times

0 comments

jpc01y ago

- mandatory seat belts

- doors that close and remain closed

- airbags

None of the things you mentioned are particularly an issue with the regulations, they legitimately assist in situations where they are meant to assist. If some feature is mildly inconvenient to you but saves the life of another human being then I feel you can live with the inconvenience.

If you made an argument about subscriptions for heater seating or carplay or some nonsense then you have a valid argument and is in the same line as DRM, mandated actual safety feature not do much.

randunelOP1y ago

Let me enable the features that I consider I might need, such as permanent logging of speed, seatbelts, inclination, etc. Let me disable the features I don't want when I don't want them.

Cars sold to the police have the option to not have their lights permanently on, so it is definitely possible / software setting, it's just inaccessible to regular users.

vasco1y ago

When some dude runs you over and your family can't prove they were speeding without the data you enjoy these things very much. It would've saved me quite a bit of headache for example.

ipaddr1y ago

Having the lights on during the day doesn't help.

Having data on every single thing someone does would be handy for all future crimes. Why don't we push for that level of surveillance. Because we are trying to balance with privacy.

2 more replies

Ensorceled1y ago

Why do you keep putting "safety" in quotes? The only one that isn't actually a proven safety feature is the permanent GSM connection.

randunelOP1y ago

How is the black box a safety feature? The word "safety" is used by everyone nowadays when they don't have actual arguments for things they impose on others.

michaelt1y ago

Well you see, if I'm driving too fast and I cause a crash - I might lie and claim I wasn't driving too fast.

The black box, by providing evidence to prosecute me, makes the roads safer for other people as while I'm in prison, I can't cause any further accidents. But it doesn't make me all that much safer, prison is a dangerous place.

potato37328421y ago

What a bunch of BS. Are you blind to how the world works?

The only time a black box ever gets used for that stuff is when an agent of the state or corporation with deep pockets to buy power or other "more equal animal" is trying to get one over of one of us peasants.

When speed is a serious factor it is generally obvious from the results of the crash anyway.

matwood1y ago

> How is the black box a safety feature?

This is pretty obvious. Having a black box helps better understand what happened and what may need to change to avoid future accidents.

This is clearly different than always transmitting my speed and writing tickets without context.

Ensorceled1y ago

The black boxes from the American Eagle jet and the black hawk helicopter have been recovered and will be used to figure out what happened, hopefully helping to prevent future tragedies.

potato37328421y ago

Because it's only incidentally about the user(s) or public's safety. That only happens so much at those goals incidentally overlap with keeping the OEMs "safe" from regulators and ambulance chasing lawyers.

noja1y ago

> engine turns off when stationary (the default setting can't be changed by the user, but by a car service with the right tools)

Yes it can.

randunelOP1y ago

For cars sold nowadays, users can deactivate that every time they turn the car on, but the default cannot be changed without vendor specific OBD commands.

consp1y ago

You should complain to your car manufacturer as it is a cheat to comply with emission regulation. If they meet it without it can be permanently disabled by the user.

consp1y ago

> lights permanently on

This is wrong. You can turn them off. Even DRL. If your car cannot you should complain to the manufacturer or live in one of the very few states requiring it.

> engine turns off when stationary

My previous car had a button specifically to disable it and it did so permanently. My current one doesn't need to.

> car brakes on its own

This is a manufacturer choice. Buy another car. Mine can be user disabled permanently.

> signals left/right at least 3 times

Manufacturer choice, usually for the non-flip indicator mechanic, which you likely can configure. If you flip it fully it might only do one, you should try it.

PeterStuer1y ago

You can. You just wouldn't be allowed to run it on the public road.

k4rli1y ago

You certainly can still buy a decent car in 2025 but it's gonna have to be <2015 model year. None of my three cars have any of this nonsense.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

jpc01y ago

- mandatory seat belts

- doors that close and remain closed

- airbags

If you made an argument about subscriptions for heater seating or carplay or some nonsense then you have a valid argument and is in the same line as DRM, mandated actual safety feature not do much.

randunelOP1y ago

Let me enable the features that I consider I might need, such as permanent logging of speed, seatbelts, inclination, etc. Let me disable the features I don't want when I don't want them.

Cars sold to the police have the option to not have their lights permanently on, so it is definitely possible / software setting, it's just inaccessible to regular users.

vasco1y ago

When some dude runs you over and your family can't prove they were speeding without the data you enjoy these things very much. It would've saved me quite a bit of headache for example.

ipaddr1y ago

Having the lights on during the day doesn't help.

Having data on every single thing someone does would be handy for all future crimes. Why don't we push for that level of surveillance. Because we are trying to balance with privacy.

2 more replies

Ensorceled1y ago

Why do you keep putting "safety" in quotes? The only one that isn't actually a proven safety feature is the permanent GSM connection.

randunelOP1y ago

How is the black box a safety feature? The word "safety" is used by everyone nowadays when they don't have actual arguments for things they impose on others.

michaelt1y ago

Well you see, if I'm driving too fast and I cause a crash - I might lie and claim I wasn't driving too fast.

potato37328421y ago

What a bunch of BS. Are you blind to how the world works?

When speed is a serious factor it is generally obvious from the results of the crash anyway.

matwood1y ago

> How is the black box a safety feature?

This is pretty obvious. Having a black box helps better understand what happened and what may need to change to avoid future accidents.

This is clearly different than always transmitting my speed and writing tickets without context.

Ensorceled1y ago

The black boxes from the American Eagle jet and the black hawk helicopter have been recovered and will be used to figure out what happened, hopefully helping to prevent future tragedies.

potato37328421y ago

noja1y ago

> engine turns off when stationary (the default setting can't be changed by the user, but by a car service with the right tools)

Yes it can.

randunelOP1y ago

For cars sold nowadays, users can deactivate that every time they turn the car on, but the default cannot be changed without vendor specific OBD commands.

consp1y ago

You should complain to your car manufacturer as it is a cheat to comply with emission regulation. If they meet it without it can be permanently disabled by the user.

consp1y ago

> lights permanently on

This is wrong. You can turn them off. Even DRL. If your car cannot you should complain to the manufacturer or live in one of the very few states requiring it.

> engine turns off when stationary

My previous car had a button specifically to disable it and it did so permanently. My current one doesn't need to.

> car brakes on its own

This is a manufacturer choice. Buy another car. Mine can be user disabled permanently.

> signals left/right at least 3 times

Manufacturer choice, usually for the non-flip indicator mechanic, which you likely can configure. If you flip it fully it might only do one, you should try it.

PeterStuer1y ago

You can. You just wouldn't be allowed to run it on the public road.

k4rli1y ago

You certainly can still buy a decent car in 2025 but it's gonna have to be <2015 model year. None of my three cars have any of this nonsense.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse