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0 pointsseth_at_kagi11mo ago0 comments

Hey, Engineer from Kagi here.

This is not something we intentionally do here, and is a feature of Stripe to automatically renew at the end of a trial if there is a payment method present. It should have also sent you an email about 7 days before it was going to renew.

With that said, I do understand how this may be unexpected. I will look into adding a workaround for this auto-renewal so that we can prevent that in the future for other users. Either way, if you contact support@kagi.com we can give you a full refund.

0 comments

realo11mo ago

That comment from an actual human being, sir, more than anything else, would be by itself a reason for me to switch to Kagi everywhere.

Fortunately I already switched to Kagi everywhere...

bitwize11mo ago

Egg on face from Hackernews has been known to turn the eye of even Google.

There is tremendous power here.

bmacho11mo ago

Huh? They are scamming someone,

> I do understand how this may be unexpected.

is the answer, they claim that it is a bug at their partner, and they offer opt-in (not automatic) refund. That's straight up illegal. Also controversial, like, if it's a bug, why isn't the refund automatic in the first place.

How does this make you want to be their user?

freedomben11mo ago

Have you ever written software? Especially to manage payments? This is a very plausible bug around a corner case. Maybe they're secretly twirling their evil mustaches figuring out how to scam their previous customers that they're also trying to win back, or maybe sometimes bugs happen.

2 more replies

IIsi50MHz10mo ago

> and they offer opt-in (not automatic) refund.

Please consider whether they can authenticate a user based on an HN comment and HN profile. The request for the user contact the company directly makes sense.

> Also controversial, like, if it's a bug, why isn't the refund automatic in the first place.

Have they known about the bug before? For how long? Perhaps it's not an automatic refund because they need to confirm the underlying issue, figure out which users are affected, and only then get management to to sign off on it.

infecto11mo ago

I realize Kagi is loved here, heck I use it myself but this pattern does come off at best lazy engineering and at worst scammy. Their marketing email pitches it off as no strings attached but there is a case where it will auto charge you at the end.

I think some of the ton is a little aggressive but it does seem like something that a lot of other companies would maybe get called out for.

1 more reply

jrmg11mo ago

It’s plausible that I didn’t see the email because it got spam filtered away, so I totally believe that one was sent.

On contacting support: to your (Kagi’s) credit, Kagi did cancel the subscription and refund the fee after I contacted support. But if I hadn’t been scrutinising my credit card statements for other reasons, I suspect it may have been a few months before I noticed.

[edit: Thinking more: if their ‘no fee if you don’t use it’ policy actually works, I guess I wouldn’t be charged more than the one month. Although that makes it even less likely I’d’ve noticed.]

Marsymars11mo ago

> But if I hadn’t been scrutinising my credit card statements for other reasons

A bit off-topic, but rather than scrutinizing credit card statements, I find it much better to get email notifications of transactions - that way I can review transactions as they’re made and fresh in mind, and I notice fraudulent or unwanted transactions right away.

joseda-hg11mo ago

Depending on the dates, "no fee if you don't use it" might not have been in place yet

FrinkleFrankle11mo ago

Email is not the best notification method these days. I'd suggest having a notifications delivered directly in kagi's interface as well. Maybe a banner for an ending trial period.

I have been using Kagi since the start. You guys are doing an incredible job.

nottorp11mo ago

> This is not something we intentionally do here, and is a feature of Stripe to automatically renew at the end of a trial if there is a payment method present.

Blaming Stripe?

rocmcd11mo ago

> Blaming Stripe?

Explaining Stripe?

discordance11mo ago

Thank you for stepping up but here's a tip - don't blame Stripe. If you use a 3p in your service, it's now apart of your service and you're responsible for that.

IIsi50MHz10mo ago

I appreciated the extra detail, and took it as something "Here's what we think caused this, and we're taking responsibility for finding a way to prevent it."

megiddo11mo ago

Hey, I've been a subscriber for a while. I love it. I wear the tshirt.

Thank you.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

realo11mo ago

That comment from an actual human being, sir, more than anything else, would be by itself a reason for me to switch to Kagi everywhere.

Fortunately I already switched to Kagi everywhere...

bitwize11mo ago

Egg on face from Hackernews has been known to turn the eye of even Google.

There is tremendous power here.

bmacho11mo ago

Huh? They are scamming someone,

> I do understand how this may be unexpected.

How does this make you want to be their user?

freedomben11mo ago

2 more replies

IIsi50MHz10mo ago

> and they offer opt-in (not automatic) refund.

Please consider whether they can authenticate a user based on an HN comment and HN profile. The request for the user contact the company directly makes sense.

> Also controversial, like, if it's a bug, why isn't the refund automatic in the first place.

infecto11mo ago

I think some of the ton is a little aggressive but it does seem like something that a lot of other companies would maybe get called out for.

1 more reply

jrmg11mo ago

It’s plausible that I didn’t see the email because it got spam filtered away, so I totally believe that one was sent.

Marsymars11mo ago

> But if I hadn’t been scrutinising my credit card statements for other reasons

joseda-hg11mo ago

Depending on the dates, "no fee if you don't use it" might not have been in place yet

FrinkleFrankle11mo ago

Email is not the best notification method these days. I'd suggest having a notifications delivered directly in kagi's interface as well. Maybe a banner for an ending trial period.

I have been using Kagi since the start. You guys are doing an incredible job.

nottorp11mo ago

> This is not something we intentionally do here, and is a feature of Stripe to automatically renew at the end of a trial if there is a payment method present.

Blaming Stripe?

rocmcd11mo ago

> Blaming Stripe?

Explaining Stripe?

discordance11mo ago

Thank you for stepping up but here's a tip - don't blame Stripe. If you use a 3p in your service, it's now apart of your service and you're responsible for that.

IIsi50MHz10mo ago

I appreciated the extra detail, and took it as something "Here's what we think caused this, and we're taking responsibility for finding a way to prevent it."

megiddo11mo ago

Hey, I've been a subscriber for a while. I love it. I wear the tshirt.

Thank you.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse