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0 pointssmsm4213y ago0 comments

Romney and Obama are not the only people in US politics. There are multiple proponents of single-payer model (which is obviously modelled along the same lines as in countries where it currently exists), and they keep being elected. Of course nobody would just say "we are going to copy France" - that'd be stupid, US and France are different countries with different traditions, legal systems, economic and political systems, etc. But many politicians I've heard compared favorably health care systems in Canada, UK, France, Switzerland, Germany, etc. to American one and I don't see why they would suffer electorally for it - the idea that American system needs reform is a commonplace among both left and right (they of course disagree as to what kind of reform it needs) and comparing favorably to certain aspects of foreign experience is nothing unexpected - in fact, in this case, there's not much choice to compare - if you want to argue "we want to change it", you'd need examples, and since you won't be able to find enough examples in the US (state experiments don't have enough timespan and may not scale well) you'd have to go international. If you wanted to show, for example, that single payer is a workable model, you won't have much choice but to refer to the experience of the countries where it was introduced.

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mbesto13y ago

> that'd be stupid, US and France are different countries with different traditions, legal systems, economic and political systems, etc.

> (state experiments don't have enough timespan and may not scale well)

You see, this is problem right here. America was founded on the idea that each state should govern themselves and that there should be minimal federal involvement (this is what Libertarians fight for). Furthermore, I'm not sure I agree with your line of reasoning. Your saying that we can't copy other countries because they're different, yet we can't copy ourselves because it doesn't scale well.

> I don't see why they would suffer electorally for it

I don't see why either, but that's the reality. Have you ever watched Fox News for more than 5 minutes? They would slander the hell out of ANY politician who said "let's be like France" in any capacity. Note - It's important to understand that neither I nor yourself need to watch Fox News. The point is, a VERY LARGE portion of America does, and they believe the stuff that spews out of these people's mouths.

I think the overall point of the article is that we are effectively "trapped" in the US because we are constantly reminded that "This is the America Way!" and to think otherwise is blasphemy. We are lucky in American to always have the ability to create a challenging opinion...always. However it doesn't mean it's popular. Popular gets you elected. Elected gets you legislation.

smsm42OP13y ago

>> Your saying that we can't copy other countries because they're different, yet we can't copy ourselves because it doesn't scale well.

Right. That's why mere copying of anything won't work. One has to actually put some thought into how to make it work without just copying something. I know, it's a bummer, but when we spend trillions of dollars on federal government, we can expect them to have at least couple of people who can think and do beyond what an average copying machine does.

>> Have you ever watched Fox News for more than 5 minutes? They would slander the hell out of ANY politician who said "let's be like France"

I'd recommend to leave aside the knee-jerk Fox News bashing, it does not add anything to the topic. I'd also recommend to actually read my response, where I specifically say that nobody would say "let's be like France" - but many politicians can and do say "let's borrow this good idea from France". France being substitute for many various countries here of course.

>> Note - It's important to understand that neither I nor yourself need to watch Fox News. The point is, a VERY LARGE portion of America does, and they believe the stuff that spews out of these people's mouths.

I strongly suspect your information about "stuff that spews out of these people's mouths" is a a distorted third-party reports and not the result of actual observation of sufficient footage and comparing it to other comparable networks and hosts - such as MSNBC, for example. FN is no better and no worse than any other major news outlet - they all are politicized and all employ some people which have very strong opinions, earn millions by voicing these opinions to the public and sometimes do not let the actual facts to stand in the way of these opinions. This however is not related too much to the topic in question, as existence of politicians that openly declare views which go directly opposite to what most of the FN viewers would agree with is the fact, be these opinions regarding health care, finances, social issues, judiciary issues or any issues whatsoever. FN or their viewers do not hold any death grip on America and are only one part of various and pluralistic public scene. They have their options, other people have theirs, and all of them "spew" them from their mouths freely. It may cause some people stop voting for some politicians, and some other people start voting for them - that's how the elections work. But assuming politicians live in mortal fear of FN and that prevents them from telling what they want to tell people is pure nonsense.

>> I think the overall point of the article is that we are effectively "trapped" in the US because we are constantly reminded that "This is the America Way!" and to think otherwise is blasphemy.

This is baloney. There is no agreement what is "America Way", and right now there are at least two, if not more, polar opposite approaches as to what is "America Way" in pretty much every issue are being actively discussed in public, with roughly equal parts of the population sympathizing to each approach. In this situation, claiming there's only one "America Way" and departing from it is seen by the public as blasphemy is to confess your own ignorance and detachment from most current events easily observable.

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