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0 pointsneilv10mo ago0 comments

Thank you for honesty on this.

The choice isn't necessarily between 99% and 0% of legitimate users/visitors getting through.

What if you, and every other customer of Cloudflare or its competitors, applied pressure to make that 100% of legitimate users/visitors getting through?

What if legislators also mandated that 100% for many sites?

0 comments

brookst10mo ago

Mandating 100% availability sounds like regulating pi to 3.0.

It can’t be done. If someone is on a home network whose router has been compromised and is part of a ddos attack, there’s no way their innocent HTTP traffic is getting through. Ditto if their machine has been compromised. Lots of scenarios where an innocent user must be blocked, unless the entire internet is reinvented. Which is beyond the scope of my project.

neilvOP10mo ago

> It can’t be done. If someone is on a home network whose router has been compromised and is part of a ddos attack, there’s no way their innocent HTTP traffic is getting through. Ditto if their machine has been compromised.

To me, this sounds like giving up way too easily on engineering problems.

One distinction to start with: Let's say grandma's router isn't part of a DDoS attack. Even if she might be trying to talk with a site that someone is trying to attack.

After solving that one, maybe the solution also somehow solves the problem of when grandma's router is involved in DDoS (or that site? of a different one?), or maybe we have to think harder.

jedberg10mo ago

We have thought harder. We know the solution. But you have to trade off privacy for security. It's having every person get a cryptographic key from the government to identify themselves.

Some states are trying this now with porn sites and users are rightfully not having it.

1 more reply

brookst10mo ago

Great, please start a service to do this. From my perspective, it can’t be done. I would be thrilled to be wrong!

1 more reply

mvdtnz10mo ago

The people behind Cloudflare spend all day, every day trying to solve these kinds of problems. They're just not as simple as you make it sound.

2 more replies

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 pointsneilv10mo ago0 comments

Thank you for honesty on this.

The choice isn't necessarily between 99% and 0% of legitimate users/visitors getting through.

What if you, and every other customer of Cloudflare or its competitors, applied pressure to make that 100% of legitimate users/visitors getting through?

What if legislators also mandated that 100% for many sites?

0 comments

brookst10mo ago

Mandating 100% availability sounds like regulating pi to 3.0.

neilvOP10mo ago

To me, this sounds like giving up way too easily on engineering problems.

One distinction to start with: Let's say grandma's router isn't part of a DDoS attack. Even if she might be trying to talk with a site that someone is trying to attack.

After solving that one, maybe the solution also somehow solves the problem of when grandma's router is involved in DDoS (or that site? of a different one?), or maybe we have to think harder.

jedberg10mo ago

We have thought harder. We know the solution. But you have to trade off privacy for security. It's having every person get a cryptographic key from the government to identify themselves.

Some states are trying this now with porn sites and users are rightfully not having it.

1 more reply

brookst10mo ago

Great, please start a service to do this. From my perspective, it can’t be done. I would be thrilled to be wrong!

1 more reply

mvdtnz10mo ago

The people behind Cloudflare spend all day, every day trying to solve these kinds of problems. They're just not as simple as you make it sound.

2 more replies

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse