Why haven't we seen an explosion of new start-ups, products or features? Why do we still see hundreds of bug tickets on every issue tracking page? Have you noticed anything different on any changelog?
I invite tptacek, or any other chatbot enthusiast around, to publish project metrics and show some actual numbers.
You're posting this question on a forum hosted by YC. Here's a story from March 2024: "YC’s latest W24 batch includes 240 companies. A significant portion of the companies have some AI component, with 63% tagged as “Artificial Intelligence” — a notable increase from 51% in the preceding S23 batch and 29% before that.". https://jamesin.substack.com/p/analysis-of-ycs-latest-w24-ba...
I've not seen the same analysis for more recent batches.
1. A huge part of the demographic group visiting HN is biased in favor of AI given the sort of startups YN decides to fund.
2. The large amount of start-ups funded by HN that are related to AI should answer your question.
I am slightly leaning towards the first one combined with a little bit of the latter one. A lot of people working in startups will be used to building up a structure from scratch where incorporating the latest "thing" is not that big of a deal. It also means they rarely see the long term impact of the code they write.
They have a huge blind spot for the reality of existing code bases and company structures where introducing these tools isn't as easy and code needs to be maintained for much longer.
I categorize that as "an explosion", personally. Do you disagree?
The enthusiasts have a cognitive dissonance because they are pretty sure this is huge and we’re living in the future, so they go through various denial strategies when the execs ask them where the money is.
In this case it’s blame. These darned skeptics are ruining it for everyone.
I’m nonetheless willing to be patient and see how it plays out. If I’m skeptical about some grandiose claims I must also be equally skeptical and accepting about the possibility of large scale effects happening but not being apparent to me yet.
In my personal experience (LLM and code suggestion only) it's because I use LLMs to code unimportant stuff. Actually thinking what I want to do with the business code is exhausting and I'd rather play a little with a fun project. Also, the unit tests that LLMs can now write (and which were too expensive to write myself) were never important to begin with.
At that stage, the real value will lie in the remaining 10%—the part that requires human judgment, creativity, or architectural thinking. The rest will be seen as routine: simple instructions, redundant CRUD operations, boilerplate, and glue code.
If we focus only on the end result, human will inevitably write less code overall. And writing less code means fewer programming jobs.
Call me naive, but you'd think that these specifically want to demonstrate how well their product works. Making an effort to distinguish PRs that are largely the work of their own agents. Yet, I am not seeing that.
I have no doubt that people find use in some aspects of these tools. Though I personally more subscribe to the interactive rubber ducky usage of them. But 90% from where I am standing seems like a very, very far way off.
People don't like working for free, either by themselves or with an AI agent.
At least that's what I do and what I see among friends.
I see new AI assisted products everyday, and a lot of them have real usage. Beyond the code-assistants/gen companies which are very real examples, here's an anecdote.
I was thinking of writing a new story, and found http://sudowrite.com/ via an ad, an ai assistant for helping you write, its already used by a ton of journalists and serious writers, and am trying it out.
Then i wanted to plan a trip - tried google but saw nothing useful, and then asked chatgpt and now have a clear plan
I am not seeing anything indicating it is actually used by a ton of journalists and serious writers. I highly doubt it is, the FAQ is also paper thin in as far as substance goes. I highly doubt they are training/hosting their own models yet I see only vague third party references in their privacy policy. Their pricing is less than transparent given that they don't really explain how their "credits" translate to actual usage. They blatantly advertise this to be for students, which is problematic in itself.
This ignores all the other issues around so heavily depending on LLMs for your writing. This is an interesting quirk for starters: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/apr/16/techscape... . But there are many more issues about relying so heavily on LLM tools for writing.
So this example, to me, is actually exemplifying the issue of overselling capabilities while handwaving away any potential issues that is so prevalent in the AI space.
We released our own fiction-specific model earlier this year - you can read more it at https://www.sudowrite.com/muse
A much-improved version 1.5 came out today -- it's preferred 2-to-1 vs Claude in blind tests with our users.
You're right on the faq -- alas, we've been very product-focused and haven't done the best job keeping the marketing site up to date. What questions do you wish we'd answer there?
Then Mozilla and Google did things with it that I did not think were possible for them to do. Not "they wrote a bunch of code with it", stuff like "they eliminated an entire class of bugs from a section of their codebase."
Then I watched a bunch of essentially hobby developers write kernel drivers for brand new architecture, and watched them turn brand new Macbooks into one of the best-in-class ways to run Linux. I do not believe they could have done that with their resources at that speed, using C or C++.
And at that point, you kind of begrudgingly say, "okay, I don't know if I like this, but fine, heck you, whatever. I guess it might genuinely redefine some parts of software development, you win."
So this is not impossible. You can convince devs like me that your tools are real and they work.
And frankly, there are a billion problems in modern computing that are high impact - stuff like Gnome accessibility, competitive browser engines, FOSS UX, collaboration tools. Entire demographics who have serious problems that could be solved by software if there was enough expertise and time and there were resources to solve them. Often, the issue at play is that there is no intersection between people who are very well acquainted with those communities and understand their needs, and people who have experience writing software.
In theory, LLMs help solve this. In theory. If you're a good programmer, and suddenly you have a tool that makes you 4x as productive as a developer: you could have a very serious impact on a lot of communities right now. I have not seen it happen. Not in the enterprise world, but also not in the FOSS world, not in communities with lower technical resources, not in the public sector. And again, I can be convinced by this, I have dismissed tools that I later switched opinions on because I saw the impact and I couldn't ignore the impact: Rust, NodeJS, Flatpak, etc, etc.
The problem is people have been telling me that Coding Assistants (and now Coding Agents) are one of those tools for multiple years now, and I'm still waiting to see the impact. I'm not waiting to see how many companies pick them up, I'm not waiting to see the job market. I'm waiting to see if this means that real stuff starts getting written at a higher quality significantly faster, and I don't see it.
I see a lot of individual devs showing me hobby projects, and a lot of AI startups, and... frankly, not much else.
If you end up finishing it in 6 months, are you going to revise that estimate, or celebrate the fact that you don't need to wait until 2092 to use the project?
