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0 pointsDr4kn8mo ago0 comments

If your country shuts off Internet access for demonstrations this would work great.

0 comments

I guess it depends on the authoritarian government, but a sufficiently powerful one will get the app taken down or get the bluetooth features it relies on disabled (like for airdrop in China) :/

I would say that the underlying issue is that people do not really "own" their devices and the corporations that do are vulnerable to (or complicit in) state coercion.

You cannot truly have freedom on a non-free device, you can just be small enough to not be worth taking action against yet.

synctext8mo ago

Indeed! Advanced countries will and have blocked apps.

For a more extensive discussion on censorship resilient mesh networking, see IETF Internet Standard draft from 2012 [1]. After the Arab Spring there was global hope. Great to see revival of this topic today. Mesh networking is 1990s. The lesson from decades ago was that mesh networking can't be the killer use-case. Users need a reason to install this and allow it to drain the battery while looking for nearby nodes. Mesh networking never broke through the glass ceiling.

Blocking apps is real. Even Amazon killed a side-loaded app [2].

[1] https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-pouwelse-censorfree-sc...

[2] https://torrentfreak.com/amazon-remote-disables-piracy-apps-...

thenthenthen8mo ago

Airdrop works fine in China, actually, if you leave it open you will be harassed by unwanted drops in public transport. E-sims are not allowed.

xyzzy1238mo ago

Yeah the change they made was to auto shut off airdrop after 10 mins. It's just that it happened to roll out in China around the same time that many apps were banned and protesters were reported as using airdrop to pass messages.

But I mostly agree - they rolled it out worldwide later on because once you reason it through, disabling it when it's not actively used turns out to be the better default.

ChicagoBoy118mo ago

wait timeout... airdrop is disabled in china?!

xyzzy1238mo ago

Was a bit more subtle than "disabled" really. See: https://www.engadget.com/apple-china-airdrop-limit-everyone-...

I think you could reasonably argue that the measure limits Airdrop spam.

al_borland8mo ago

But it would only really work well in a small area, such as a couple friends communicating at a demonstration, where there are a lot of people who may be motivated to participate in a particular area.

If there is a low density area between two people, a message could take a long time to show up. A message from NYC to LA is effectively relying on the messaging being cached on a phone in NYC, that person flying to LA, and then continuing the journey.

teiferer8mo ago

Though demonstration organizers could run around with QR codes making it easy for everybody to install the right app to communicate with each other during the demonstration. As long as people can side-load things on their phones, this should be possible without any way to stop it unless you deploy radio jammers. (Which is then the logical next step for police equipment in so minded states.)

al_borland8mo ago

People are supposed to scan a sketchy QR code to side load an app? That sounds like a security nightmare.

Those working against the demonstrators could send people out with QR code to infect the phones will malware for their own means.

1 more reply

thekid3148mo ago

Yeah, I used an older version of a bluetooth messaging app like this. We wish it had been available in the times of Tahrir Square, but it was actually helpfull onetime when my bus stopped at a rural Ethiopian bus stop, my girlfriend ran into the bathroom but was taking too long and I was able to warn her that the bus was getting ready to leave.

Wireless internet is getting better, but when you really need something like this, you really need it.

torpid8mo ago

If your country shuts off internet access they are probably going to jam bluetooth and wifi at any large demonstration, too.

ijustlovemath8mo ago

Nation states can use the baseband radios to track/monitor you, so it's best to leave your phone at home. You can't disable or observe baseband from the higher level OS.

immibis8mo ago

FWIW what people call "baseband" in the context of this particular security flaw is what everyone (including those people) call "cellular modem" in every other context.

On a Pinephone you can turn it off with a physical power switch.

If you really wanted to, on most other phones you could desolder it and throw it in the garbage. You'd need to already have custom firmware on the main CPU (or should I say "application processor" to fit in with the people who say "baseband processor") so it wouldn't crash or lock up when booting.

A little bit less destructive (in case you want to use your cellphone as a cellphone later) would be replacing the antenna with a dummy load.

zikduruqe8mo ago

That is what https://berty.tech is for.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

xyzzy1238mo ago

I guess it depends on the authoritarian government, but a sufficiently powerful one will get the app taken down or get the bluetooth features it relies on disabled (like for airdrop in China) :/

I would say that the underlying issue is that people do not really "own" their devices and the corporations that do are vulnerable to (or complicit in) state coercion.

You cannot truly have freedom on a non-free device, you can just be small enough to not be worth taking action against yet.

synctext8mo ago

Indeed! Advanced countries will and have blocked apps.

Blocking apps is real. Even Amazon killed a side-loaded app [2].

[1] https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-pouwelse-censorfree-sc...

[2] https://torrentfreak.com/amazon-remote-disables-piracy-apps-...

thenthenthen8mo ago

Airdrop works fine in China, actually, if you leave it open you will be harassed by unwanted drops in public transport. E-sims are not allowed.

xyzzy1238mo ago

But I mostly agree - they rolled it out worldwide later on because once you reason it through, disabling it when it's not actively used turns out to be the better default.

ChicagoBoy118mo ago

wait timeout... airdrop is disabled in china?!

xyzzy1238mo ago

Was a bit more subtle than "disabled" really. See: https://www.engadget.com/apple-china-airdrop-limit-everyone-...

I think you could reasonably argue that the measure limits Airdrop spam.

al_borland8mo ago

teiferer8mo ago

al_borland8mo ago

People are supposed to scan a sketchy QR code to side load an app? That sounds like a security nightmare.

Those working against the demonstrators could send people out with QR code to infect the phones will malware for their own means.

1 more reply

thekid3148mo ago

Wireless internet is getting better, but when you really need something like this, you really need it.

torpid8mo ago

If your country shuts off internet access they are probably going to jam bluetooth and wifi at any large demonstration, too.

ijustlovemath8mo ago

Nation states can use the baseband radios to track/monitor you, so it's best to leave your phone at home. You can't disable or observe baseband from the higher level OS.

immibis8mo ago

FWIW what people call "baseband" in the context of this particular security flaw is what everyone (including those people) call "cellular modem" in every other context.

On a Pinephone you can turn it off with a physical power switch.

A little bit less destructive (in case you want to use your cellphone as a cellphone later) would be replacing the antenna with a dummy load.

zikduruqe8mo ago

That is what https://berty.tech is for.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse