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0 pointsrich_sasha9mo ago0 comments

From my research, well, Palestine may have had various shots at statehood, each time below their expectations. It's a negotiation and balance of power which they didn't have. It's hard to argue with power.

But Israel claims far, far more than "we're more powerful so its our way or the highway". Israel asserts they are in a universally morally superior position, thay it went out of its way to accomodate the Palestinians. And I think this is blatantly untrue. The Palestinians were kicked off their land 70 years ago, for complex reasons, and every year continue to be pushed further by Israel. Theres many ccontradictory things happening in Israel, but this one IMO is a clear indication that Israel is acting in bad faith.

As to your source, let's unpick this. Your link states that a UN representative erroneously claimed 14,000 children will die within 48 hours, due to malnutrition. Instead, he should have said over 12 months. Sure, thats a big difference, but either is beastly - while achieving 0 military or diplomatic effect.

Other sources I follow include the B'tselem institute, who recently called the Israeli governments actions clearly genocidal.

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dlubarov9mo ago

> Instead, he should have said over 12 months.

In addition to ~12 months turning into "48 hours", "children aged between six months and five years" turned in "babies", and "acute malnutrition" turned into "death".

When top UN officials are pushing blatant disinformation like this with no consequences, it's hard to know who to trust for unbiased information.

> B'tselem institute, who recently called the Israeli governments actions clearly genocidal

Considering that it's B'tselem, there was never really a possibility of them reaching a different position. I don't think they've ever pushed back on anti-Israeli propaganda, such as the UN statement above.

rich_sashaOP9mo ago

You're not convincing me. It's also not like you are attacking pivotal issues. You point out that some of what is said about Israel is not right, and clearly that is true. You point at one fact I didn't even rely on. Calling it "blatantly disinformation" isnt right either - it was one statement, quickly corrected.

In any case, "it's not 14,000 babies dead in 48 hours, it is only 14,000 with severe malnutrition over 12 months" isnt an argument I'd like to rely on when my judgment day comes.

homefree9mo ago

There won't be peace when one side has an explicit goal to kill all the Jews, the other side is Jews that don't want to be killed and neither is willing to compromise.

You can ignore that underlying moral framing, but it's the basis of the conflict and it's why Israel has a morally superior position.

The Palestinians have over and over again said they don't want two states, they want to destroy Israel and kill Jews - the idea they want two states only exists in the minds of western leftists, it's a failure to understand Islamic Jihad and the Muslim Brotherhood.

dlubarov9mo ago

They didn't correct it though; when BBC inquired about it their response was a somewhat evasive "We are pointing to the imperative of getting supplies ..."

I did separately point out a couple misstatements in your comments. My point with the UN thing was just that I wouldn't blame anyone for getting a few things wrong, when sources we expect to be credible are actually spreading disinformation.

> isnt an argument I'd like to rely on when my judgment day comes.

I don't believe there's any justification for spreading disinformation like Fletcher's, or any situation where it's wrong to correct it, no matter what humanitarian agenda is involved.

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dlubarov9mo ago

> Instead, he should have said over 12 months.

In addition to ~12 months turning into "48 hours", "children aged between six months and five years" turned in "babies", and "acute malnutrition" turned into "death".

When top UN officials are pushing blatant disinformation like this with no consequences, it's hard to know who to trust for unbiased information.

> B'tselem institute, who recently called the Israeli governments actions clearly genocidal

rich_sashaOP9mo ago

In any case, "it's not 14,000 babies dead in 48 hours, it is only 14,000 with severe malnutrition over 12 months" isnt an argument I'd like to rely on when my judgment day comes.

homefree9mo ago

There won't be peace when one side has an explicit goal to kill all the Jews, the other side is Jews that don't want to be killed and neither is willing to compromise.

You can ignore that underlying moral framing, but it's the basis of the conflict and it's why Israel has a morally superior position.

dlubarov9mo ago

They didn't correct it though; when BBC inquired about it their response was a somewhat evasive "We are pointing to the imperative of getting supplies ..."

> isnt an argument I'd like to rely on when my judgment day comes.

I don't believe there's any justification for spreading disinformation like Fletcher's, or any situation where it's wrong to correct it, no matter what humanitarian agenda is involved.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse