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0 pointsjohnmaguire6mo ago0 comments

I do, when citizens have the ability to steer their nation state (i.e. the ability to vote.)

On this note, I've lived in a couple states with ballot initiative processes and while they are not perfect, I think they are absolutely necessary for citizens to truly be able to hold their elected representatives accountable (i.e. override them) and I wish we had them at a federal level.

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aleph_minus_one6mo ago

> I do, when citizens have the ability to steer their nation state (i.e. the ability to vote.)

You can also vote in the shareholders meeting.

thewebguyd6mo ago

You have to buy your way into voting as a shareholder. In a democracy, it's just your given right as a citizen.

PaulHoule6mo ago

You also have a "vote" as a consumer. The market could be much more responsive than a "democratic" system.

For instance, say you think pesticides are a bad thing. You can get 49% of the population to vote to the ban them and what do you accomplish? Nothing

No wonder people look at politics with despair.

If you can get 5% of the population to eat organic food on the other hand, you've reduced pesticide use by 5%. You create trade associations, the idea of organic food spreads more widely and maybe someday you get enough support that you can change the law.

That's hope.

aleph_minus_one6mo ago

> You have to buy your way into voting as a shareholder. In a democracy, it's just your given right as a citizen.

In a democratic country, only the people who have citizenship are allowed to vote. In a shareholders meeting, only the shareholders are allowed to vote.

You sometimes cam buy your way into citizenship. As a shareholder, it is your given right to vote in a shareholders meeting.

2 more replies

_aavaa_6mo ago

If you have money. And the more you have the more vote matters both in practice and within the rules of the system.

vondur6mo ago

I think California's system is a mess. It's been overrun with private interests bankrolling ballot initiatives and steamrolling them through. Add to that the Government itself sponsoring ballet initiatives that sale bonds to finance things that people don't understand really loans and it turns into a mess. I do like the ability to remove politicians from office via ballot though.

impossiblefork6mo ago

One idea that I think is reasonable is to use some kind of actual meetings.

Dividing people into groups of 50 or 100. Initiatives are voted on in these groups, if they are passed they go to the next level, 1000 people.

Sort of like that idea in the Yes, Minister episode about 'genuinely democratic local government'. The idea here is the tree structure is to prevent people to push initiatives other than as individuals.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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aleph_minus_one6mo ago

> I do, when citizens have the ability to steer their nation state (i.e. the ability to vote.)

You can also vote in the shareholders meeting.

thewebguyd6mo ago

You have to buy your way into voting as a shareholder. In a democracy, it's just your given right as a citizen.

PaulHoule6mo ago

You also have a "vote" as a consumer. The market could be much more responsive than a "democratic" system.

For instance, say you think pesticides are a bad thing. You can get 49% of the population to vote to the ban them and what do you accomplish? Nothing

No wonder people look at politics with despair.

That's hope.

aleph_minus_one6mo ago

> You have to buy your way into voting as a shareholder. In a democracy, it's just your given right as a citizen.

In a democratic country, only the people who have citizenship are allowed to vote. In a shareholders meeting, only the shareholders are allowed to vote.

You sometimes cam buy your way into citizenship. As a shareholder, it is your given right to vote in a shareholders meeting.

2 more replies

_aavaa_6mo ago

If you have money. And the more you have the more vote matters both in practice and within the rules of the system.

vondur6mo ago

impossiblefork6mo ago

One idea that I think is reasonable is to use some kind of actual meetings.

Dividing people into groups of 50 or 100. Initiatives are voted on in these groups, if they are passed they go to the next level, 1000 people.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse