Estimated cost of educating me paid for in entirety by American individuals (Private+Government): $600,000.
Chances of me getting to stay in the US:
Scenario 1: I get a tenure track job at an R-1 University, and I am exempt from the H1-B cap. The subsequent waiting time for my green card application is not long as I will be able to apply under the EB-1 track. Probability: Low to very low. The academic market is a crapshoot, and I need to churn out some serious publications over the next 3-4 years.
Scenario 2: I get employed at a Google/Microsoft class firm and they sponsor an H1-B. I wait the estimated 5 years for an EB-2 green card application to go through. Probability: very low to almost nil, as I don't want to be locked in for 5 years in such a job unless I get a researcher position (i.e. at MSR).
Scenario 3: I start a company. So I have a runway of about 29 months (which is how long the US allows a graduate to stay and work under OPT rules) to either make millions of dollars and reapply under O-1/H1-B. Otherwise, I am definitely out of the country as there is no way for me to stay in the US. Probability of success: low to very low.
Scenario 4: I marry an American girl and get a Green Card as a spouse of a citizen. Probability: low. I won't compromise my current/future relationships and/or hasten my life goals in order to stay in this country. Not when Canada is such an attractive option (with my degrees and partial French speaking ability I earn enough points under their system to get permanent residency on arrival).
Political status of this bullshit: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/09/why-cong...
Return on investment for American interests: Likely zero.
I had a coworker that obtained a PhD in China, got an industry job and then filed under EB-1 after publishing a number of scientific papers. He was a very good scientist, but not what I would regard as having "extraordinary ability".
The nice part is that you can self-petition, so no need to wait on your employer to start the process, no need to go through labor certification, which shaves a good year off of the process and typically priority dates are all current (even for countries that are typically affect by yearly quotas).
My coworker ended up getting his green card in a little over a year from starting the process.
On a side note, H1-B is cap exempt for ALL educational institutes and non-profit organizations.
2. The H1-B cap is not the issue. It is the green card line. Since I am from India (note: this would also apply to China) the wait is extremely long.
The UK has two to four, and nearly everyone else has none or one.
Given this, it is not at all surprising that a lot of foreign students come to the US for graduate school even if they do not intend to stay in the US after getting their degree.
[1] http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870490560457502...
You know. Congress knows, and they won't change the status quo.
The obvious reading is that the H1-B track gives a ready supply of workers with very little leverage. The interests of the American public or, God forbid, of immigrants are second to the desire to depress wages at the high end.
2004 - I applied to do my Master's in the United States, I had great financial aid in a good school and great GRE scores.
Student Visa? Neither approved nor Denied : Placed in indefinite limbo because I have a muslim name which brought up some flag in their database. Btw. my surname is the 'John Smith' of muslim names.
I gave up and went to Canada to pursue my education at McGill. Fantastic experience. Eventually landed a job in US and got my H1B this time. Thought the visa issues were behind me. I was wrong.
2007 - My mom applied for a US visa to come visit me. Neither approved/nor denied (Section 221(g) - name check).
2008 - My dad and mom both applied for a US visa to come visit me. Neither approved/nor denied - same reason.
2011 - After living in working in US for about 5 years and having gotten multiple visa stamps, I got to Vancouver to get my visa renewed. Placed under limbo again! Stayed in Vancouver for weeks before they 'cleared me'.
2012 - My mom applies again. Result? you guessed the answer. Visa limbo.
I'm facing another visa renewal soon and I'm prepared for another night-marish episode.
Oh yeah, forget about green card - the queue for my country has ensured that I'll be lucky to get it in this lifetime, pretty much screwing up my ability to take chances with starting my own start-up in the US.
The thing is that I really like living in this country, the work opportunities and its people. But the more I deal with the immigration system, the more un-welcomed and temporary I feel here.
Then the second time around, I had to lie and claim that I do zero programming for my job, and only "design" and "engineer" stuff. Lol....
The language of the treaty hasn't been meaningfully adjusted in over 25-years.
Therefore when you are going through the process, you should relate what you'll be doing in mid-1980's terms, especially during questioning.
For example, something computer systems analysts supposedly do in the 1980's is draw flow charts. Call it that, because modern variants of that won't be on the checklist.
The border agents, who are all regular and normal people, seek what's specifically described in the treaty. So wise-up, and be prepared to hit the correct notes. Everything invented since 1987 isn't part of being a computer systems analyst under the treaty.
The border agents know this, and interpret the treaty to some degree under current circumstances. But forget about showing the border agent how much you know. You need to relate to what they know: the treaty, as written.
I really can't stand this of ignorance!
Without going into a personal rant about this whole thing, I really want to find out if you are already "here" in the US?
If you are NOT here yet, I am going to give you fair warning NOTHING is garunteed until you are across the border!
I don't care if you have an approved H-1B visa! This means nothing. The border patrol agent has the FINAL say and can deny your entry into the US for ANY REASON AT ALL! I repeat! You can be denied ENTRY with an APPROVED H-1B!!
Make sure you have all your facts straight when you are going to cross! Your denial of entry is a HUGE problem. that is going to throw up RED flags like no other when trying to cross the border so please make sure you work closely with your lawyers here!
I really hope that all works out well for you and good luck! If you are already in the country and are just waiting to work! I'm really happy that you made it past all those bastard border patrol agents!
"a million people naturalize every year, so it can't be that hard" - I'll bet none of the people that say that has first hand experience in immigrating.
It is an infuriatingly opaque and arbitrary process & there is often very little you can do about it.
FWIW, I've travelled in outside of the US around 20-30 times on TN/H-1B status and never encountered problems. On most of these trips I've re-entered at YYZ (Toronto), and most of the time the border agent doesn't ask me any questions at all. Occasionally they ask me what I do, who I work for, or where I live. One time I was asked about what type of software I write and possibly what my salary was. I've never been asked for any more details than that.
I guess it's possible I just get an easier time than you because of profiling: white, male, well-known employer, typical Canadian/US accent, no trips to strange countries, etc.
>"After I graduated from McGill in June"
Curious, did you pay out-of-country tuition rates to attend school here? I hope so, considering you didn't live, nor plan to work here.
Keeping in mind that all I have to go on is this little tale, I ask because it seems like you (and your family) have done a lot of walking through the grey area of immigration, skirting rules to take advantage of what both countries offer their citizens. Apparently it caught up to you.
Edit: For the downvoters: I'm Canadian. I don't appreciate that someone who essentially grew up in the US came back here to take advantage of our federal and provincial tax-dollar subsidized resident tuition, only to turn around and leave the country for the US again the instant he graduated. Had he never left the US for school, would this have happened?
But from an outsider's perspective, I'm not shocked that, eventually, someone stopped you and said, "Not all is as it seems here." It's a tough economic climate out there, and people tend to get defensive when it comes to jobs.
Not that this really has a place in the main discussion, although it does involve citizenship in a different way.
How unimaginably selfish of them, trying to avoid death by manipulating poor hardworking taxpayers with their use of "documents" and "citizenship" and other bits of magic paper.
And then to go back to Canada and go to university there after sucking the US dry of the words and numbers he stole with his brain while at school. Well that just beggars belief. That is exporting the intellectual property of the US school system to a foreign power, partly made of people who speak French. French! The language of terror.
There are those who will stand by you, in this, your bravest moment, although they may want to bring a stepladder and a drysuit to do so, as you do appear to be waist deep in your own shit.
[edit] Just read the edit, and I am relieved to hear that you are making a strong stand against the pernicious stereotype of Canadians being fairly reasonable people on the whole.
Pull out as many straw-men as you want, big guy. I said nothing of the sort. Great tirade though.
>"And then to go back to Canada and go to university there"
I'm going to assume that you're not Canadian, since you seem to have no idea how this works. I don't care that he came back to this country to go to University. It's something we actively promote here. In fact, I worked part-time during my undergrad for an international students club, where part of the mandate was to help foreign students integrate into Canadian life. It wasn't as serious as it sounds, my job was mostly going to Spitfires games.
I do care that he came back here to take advantage of tax-dollar subsidized tuition. Huge subsidies. Some might even say controversial subsidies, that I support. You know, subsidies meant to go to tax-paying Canadians. It's a broken system that allows that to happen, and I'll stand behind trying to close loop holes that allow people to take advantage of it.
>"There are those who will stand by you, in this, your bravest moment, although they may want to bring a stepladder and a drysuit to do so, as you do appear to be waist deep in your own shit."
There's a certain irony to being lectured about open borders and minds by an American. If you're really upset about this nonsense, there are probably some local organizations and lobby groups where you can focus your rage. Rather than, you know, at some guy on the internet who doesn't remotely support things you accuse him of.
Another thing my employer's immigration team definitely warned when I did apply for an H-1B was to be careful about traveling while the application was pending. The TN visa requires non immigrant intent, and they were concerned that a border agent might interpret an open application for H-1B as intent to immigrate. They strongly recommended that if I did travel that I not volunteer the fact that I have an H-1B pending. It's interesting that MSFT started your H-1B case before you were in the US, and I wonder if that had any effect.
Also, I come from the UK, which has more UK citizens working abroad than foreign citizens working here, all while some sections of the press runs stories about how foreign workers are crowding people out of jobs. I keep trying to ask people who support banning all foreign labour, what they think will happen when everywhere else bans UK labour from their countries in return and all those UK expat workers, with their wealth of experience, come flooding back in greater numbers than the foreign workers that have just been kicked out, so leading to even greater unemployment, while at the same time guaranteeing that nobody would really want to trade with us anymore. These kind of conversations often end somewhat badly for some reason.
Perhaps it might be because I tend to also mention the view that it is a bit rich for the UK to be complaining too loudly about immigration considering how big the empire grew from us going around and rudely sticking flags in other people's stuff.
The only problems I've heard happened at the very crossing mentioned in this post -- Blaine, WA. I know that I'll make sure to never cross there to get a "Computer Systems Analyst" TN.
While in theory one can switch jobs during the Green Card process, in practice it is a paperwork nightmare, with plenty of IFs and BUTS to slow you down.
It is compounded by the fact that it is not in the companies best interest to let the employee acquire a green card asap. The company lawyers are therefore never in a hurry, and may not go for the most expeditious process.
In addition, there is rampant fraud committed by H1/L1 sweat shops. And the checks created by the Govt to check fraud, place an un-necessary burden on the employee, as opposed to the Govt agencies and employers.
tongue planted firmly in cheek
