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0 pointssneak5mo ago0 comments

> But this is not normal. Our users not being able to shitpost is simply not worth my weekend or evening.

It is completely normal for staff to have to work 24/7 for critical services.

Plumbing, HVAC, power plant engineers, doctors, nurses, hospital support staff, taxi drivers, system and network engineers - these people keep our modern world alive, all day, every day. Weekends, midnights, holidays, every hour of every day someone is AT WORK to make sure our society functions.

Not only is it normal, it is essential and required.

It’s ok that you don’t like having to work nights or weekends or holidays. But some people absolutely have to. Be thankful there are EMTs and surgeons and power and network engineers working instead of being with their families on holidays or in the wee hours of the night.

0 comments

guitarbill5mo ago

Nice try at guilt-tripping people doing on-call, and doing it for free.

But to parent's points: if you call a plumber or HVAC tech at 3am, you'll pay for the privilege.

And doctors and nurses have shifts/rotas. At some tech places, you are expected to do your day job plus on-call. For no overtime pay. "Salaried" in the US or something like that.

xvector5mo ago

And these companies often say "it's baked into your comp!" But you can typically get the same exact comp working an adjacent role with no oncall.

sneakOP5mo ago

Then do that instead. What’s the problem with simply saying “no”?

2 more replies

sneakOP5mo ago

Guilt tripping? Quite the opposite.

If you or anyone else are doing on-call for no additional pay, precisely nobody is forcing you to do that. Renegotiate, or switch jobs. It was either disclosed up front or you missed your chance to say “sorry, no” when asked to do additional work without additional pay. This is not a problem with on call but a problem with spineless people-pleasers.

Every business will ask you for a better deal for them. If you say “sure” to everything you’re naturally going to lose out. It’s a mistake to do so, obviously.

An employee’s lack of boundaries is not an employer’s fault.

guitarbill5mo ago

First, you try to normalise it:

> It is completely normal for staff to have to work 24/7 for critical services.

> Not only is it normal, it is essential and required.

Now you come with the weak "you don't have to take the job" and this gem:

> An employee’s lack of boundaries is not an employer’s fault.

As if there isn't a power imbalance, or employers always disclose everything or chance their mind. But of course, let's blame those entitled employees!

xvector5mo ago

No one dies if our users can't shitpost until tomorrow morning.

I'm glad there are people willing to do oncall. Especially for critical services.

But the software engineering profession as a whole would benefit from negotiating concessions for oncall. We have normalized work interfering with life so the company can squeeze a couple extra millions from ads. And for what?

Nontrivial amount of ad revenue lost? Not my problem if the company can't pay me to mitigate.

disgruntledphd25mo ago

> Nontrivial amount of ad revenue lost? Not my problem if the company can't pay me to mitigate.

Interestingly, when I worked on analytics around bugs we found that often (in the ads space), there actually wasn't an impact when advertisers were unable to create ads, as they just created all of them when the interface started working again.

Now, if it had been the ad serving or pacing mechanisms then it would've been a lot of money, but not all outages are created equal.

sneakOP5mo ago

Not all websites are for shitposting. I can’t talk to my clients for whom I am on call because Signal is down. I also can’t communicate with my immediate family. There are tons of systems positively critical to society downstream from these services.

Some can tolerate downtime. Many can’t.

dist-epoch5mo ago

You could give them a Phone call, you know. Pretty reliable technology.

2 more replies

milutinovici5mo ago

You know, there's this thing called shifts. You should look it up.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 pointssneak5mo ago0 comments

> But this is not normal. Our users not being able to shitpost is simply not worth my weekend or evening.

It is completely normal for staff to have to work 24/7 for critical services.

Not only is it normal, it is essential and required.

0 comments

guitarbill5mo ago

Nice try at guilt-tripping people doing on-call, and doing it for free.

But to parent's points: if you call a plumber or HVAC tech at 3am, you'll pay for the privilege.

And doctors and nurses have shifts/rotas. At some tech places, you are expected to do your day job plus on-call. For no overtime pay. "Salaried" in the US or something like that.

xvector5mo ago

And these companies often say "it's baked into your comp!" But you can typically get the same exact comp working an adjacent role with no oncall.

sneakOP5mo ago

Then do that instead. What’s the problem with simply saying “no”?

2 more replies

sneakOP5mo ago

Guilt tripping? Quite the opposite.

Every business will ask you for a better deal for them. If you say “sure” to everything you’re naturally going to lose out. It’s a mistake to do so, obviously.

An employee’s lack of boundaries is not an employer’s fault.

guitarbill5mo ago

First, you try to normalise it:

> It is completely normal for staff to have to work 24/7 for critical services.

> Not only is it normal, it is essential and required.

Now you come with the weak "you don't have to take the job" and this gem:

> An employee’s lack of boundaries is not an employer’s fault.

As if there isn't a power imbalance, or employers always disclose everything or chance their mind. But of course, let's blame those entitled employees!

xvector5mo ago

No one dies if our users can't shitpost until tomorrow morning.

I'm glad there are people willing to do oncall. Especially for critical services.

Nontrivial amount of ad revenue lost? Not my problem if the company can't pay me to mitigate.

disgruntledphd25mo ago

> Nontrivial amount of ad revenue lost? Not my problem if the company can't pay me to mitigate.

Now, if it had been the ad serving or pacing mechanisms then it would've been a lot of money, but not all outages are created equal.

sneakOP5mo ago

Some can tolerate downtime. Many can’t.

dist-epoch5mo ago

You could give them a Phone call, you know. Pretty reliable technology.

2 more replies

milutinovici5mo ago

You know, there's this thing called shifts. You should look it up.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse