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0 pointsjustinsb13y ago0 comments

A good system is forgiving; it encourages exploration; if there's a choice between safety and performance it defaults to safety. If/when profiling shows the safe behaviour to be a bottleneck, then users can Google the issue and discover "Oh, I just need to set flag X; I can live with the consequences here".

Expecting the user to be an expert in your product from the start is simply not realistic; a well-designed system facilitates use by people of varying levels of expertise.

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chimeracoder13y ago

> A good system is forgiving; it encourages exploration; if there's a choice between safety and performance it defaults to safety.

Not if you're choosing a system that's explicitly marked for performance over safety.

> Expecting the user to be an expert in your product from the start

The 'product' in this case is a non-relational database, not an iGadget. The user can and should be expected to be familiar with the main strengths and weaknesses of the database as a whole.

There is no way you can convince me that someone who has done a reasonable level of due-diligence in investigating MongoDB can be surprised when it behaves asynchronously.

justinsbOP13y ago

Kudos to you for doing your research. If you're saying "don't use MongoDB without doing at least N days of research first", then you're very much at odds with (my perception of) the 10gen marketing message.

I think you're right though: MongoDB should not be used without _lots_ of research into its limitations.

chimeracoder13y ago

> I think you're right though: MongoDB should not be used without _lots_ of research into its limitations.

That's true about any database, not just MongoDB; nothing new here.

> then you're very much at odds with (my perception of) the 10gen marketing message.

10Gen is fairly straightforward about the original issue, having blogged openly several times about their decisions - but at the end of the day, any engineer should do research beyond the simple marketer's pitch.

I won't doubt that there are people who make snap judgements about fundamental architecture based on marketing pitches[1], but that's very unfortunate, and the marketers really can't be blamed, especially when they make no effort to conceal the truth or deceive you!

[1]http://www.pinaldave.com/bimg/dilbert5.jpg

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chimeracoder13y ago

> A good system is forgiving; it encourages exploration; if there's a choice between safety and performance it defaults to safety.

Not if you're choosing a system that's explicitly marked for performance over safety.

> Expecting the user to be an expert in your product from the start

The 'product' in this case is a non-relational database, not an iGadget. The user can and should be expected to be familiar with the main strengths and weaknesses of the database as a whole.

There is no way you can convince me that someone who has done a reasonable level of due-diligence in investigating MongoDB can be surprised when it behaves asynchronously.

justinsbOP13y ago

I think you're right though: MongoDB should not be used without _lots_ of research into its limitations.

chimeracoder13y ago

> I think you're right though: MongoDB should not be used without _lots_ of research into its limitations.

That's true about any database, not just MongoDB; nothing new here.

> then you're very much at odds with (my perception of) the 10gen marketing message.

[1]http://www.pinaldave.com/bimg/dilbert5.jpg

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