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0 pointsfrumplestlatz7mo ago0 comments

Horrible how, exactly?

People say things like that, and I wonder if I’ve just been living in a gilded tower of using Apple Mail with decent IMAP server implementations.

I’m also pretty familiar with the wire protocol and its implementation — it’s never struck me as particularly horrible.

A new protocol isn’t likely to solve the problem of poorly implemented clients and servers — e.g. Google doesn’t really care about good IMAP support, so they’re unlikely to care much about JMAP, either. They just want you to use their webapp.

0 comments

isaachinman7mo ago

Gilded tower? Are we living in separate universes?

Shameless plug for a client with true offline-first IMAP support:

https://marcoapp.io

frumplestlatzOP7mo ago

Sounds like it :) I’ve been very happy with Mail.app since MacOS 10.0. My use has always been with my employer’s IMAP servers, and my own cryus (and eventually) dovecot self-hosted IMAP servers.

Mail.app is what NeXT used internally, and Apple uses to this day AFAIK. Steve Jobs historically paid a lot of attention to it and wasn’t shy about weighing in on any changes.

Most of the complaints that I’ve heard about it seemed to stem from poor IMAP servers (e.g. Gmail), but it sounds like your knowledge in the space would be a lot more detailed and recent than mine, so I would be very interested in your thoughts.

isaachinman7mo ago

Well Jobs is long gone. Apple Mail seems like it hasn't been touched much since his days.

I've written about my experience and motivations here:

https://marcoapp.io/blog/marco-an-introduction

Gmail does indeed _intentionally_ provide poor IMAP service. But the long and short of it is that Apple Mail simply isn't a first-class product. It's an afterthought.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

isaachinman7mo ago

Gilded tower? Are we living in separate universes?

Shameless plug for a client with true offline-first IMAP support:

https://marcoapp.io

frumplestlatzOP7mo ago

Sounds like it :) I’ve been very happy with Mail.app since MacOS 10.0. My use has always been with my employer’s IMAP servers, and my own cryus (and eventually) dovecot self-hosted IMAP servers.

Mail.app is what NeXT used internally, and Apple uses to this day AFAIK. Steve Jobs historically paid a lot of attention to it and wasn’t shy about weighing in on any changes.

isaachinman7mo ago

Well Jobs is long gone. Apple Mail seems like it hasn't been touched much since his days.

I've written about my experience and motivations here:

https://marcoapp.io/blog/marco-an-introduction

Gmail does indeed _intentionally_ provide poor IMAP service. But the long and short of it is that Apple Mail simply isn't a first-class product. It's an afterthought.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse