Terry Tao: "LLMs are simpler than you think" (opens in new tab)

(youtube.com)

15 pointsIanjit2mo ago9 comments

9 comments

jqpabc1232mo ago

LLMs are a lot dumber than you think too.

They are language prediction models, not logical deduction engines.

It says so right in the name. Expecting logic or reason or decision making is a gross mis-application.

in-silico2mo ago

Humans are a lot dumber than you think too.

They are self-replicating machines, not logical deduction engines.

It says so right in the name. Expecting logic or reason or decision making is a gross mis-application.

directorscut822mo ago

The word human (usually) refer to all members of the Homo genus. The name Homo sapiens means 'wise man'. Except for the clever use of thumbs our genus successfully managed to apply logic consistently in order to survive. Human reasoning produced tools, technology and science. So, no, it doesn't say it in the name. We occasionally are dumb, or make dumb comments, but the expectations are high.

jqpabc1232mo ago

So it's understandable why dumb humans would expect to replace workers with AI --- which struggles with basic math and reasoning, has zero real world experience and can't tell fact from fiction?

IanjitOP2mo ago

I think people make comments on LLMs not being smart in reaction to the comments from the leaders of AI labs that LLMs are so smart they could/will lead to mass unemployment.

boroboro42mo ago

Language is just a form, what exactly is encoded inside of the model can be very different. And to encode logical reasoning inside of the weights with activation functions is more than possible.

Models solving IMO level problems imo proves it.

I also think you greatly overestimate human intelligence, the fact we got AGI is nothing but barely side effect of evolution.

IanjitOP2mo ago

Isn’t this what Tao is addressing in the link, that LLMs haven’t encoded reasoning? Success in IMO is misleading because they are synthetic problems with known solutions that are subject to contamination (answers to similar questions are available in the textbooks and online).

He also discusses his view on the similarity and differences between mathematics and natural language.Tao says mathematics is driven entirely by efficiency, so presumably using natural language to do mathematics is a step backwards.

IanjitOP2mo ago

My impression from Tao’s answers is that there is a gulf between the reality of what mathematicians actually do and the benchmarks that the frontier labs tout. It doesn’t seem trivial to close that gap and create an LLM that can replace mathematicians.

jk24442mo ago

Why do you sound surprised by this?

"there is a gulf between the reality of what mathematicians actually do and the benchmarks that the frontier labs tout."

A lot of peoples wealth is on the line, I wish people opened their eyes rather than believing benchmarks blindly.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

9 comments

jqpabc1232mo ago

LLMs are a lot dumber than you think too.

They are language prediction models, not logical deduction engines.

It says so right in the name. Expecting logic or reason or decision making is a gross mis-application.

in-silico2mo ago

Humans are a lot dumber than you think too.

They are self-replicating machines, not logical deduction engines.

It says so right in the name. Expecting logic or reason or decision making is a gross mis-application.

directorscut822mo ago

jqpabc1232mo ago

So it's understandable why dumb humans would expect to replace workers with AI --- which struggles with basic math and reasoning, has zero real world experience and can't tell fact from fiction?

IanjitOP2mo ago

I think people make comments on LLMs not being smart in reaction to the comments from the leaders of AI labs that LLMs are so smart they could/will lead to mass unemployment.

boroboro42mo ago

Language is just a form, what exactly is encoded inside of the model can be very different. And to encode logical reasoning inside of the weights with activation functions is more than possible.

Models solving IMO level problems imo proves it.

I also think you greatly overestimate human intelligence, the fact we got AGI is nothing but barely side effect of evolution.

IanjitOP2mo ago

jk24442mo ago

Why do you sound surprised by this?

"there is a gulf between the reality of what mathematicians actually do and the benchmarks that the frontier labs tout."

A lot of peoples wealth is on the line, I wish people opened their eyes rather than believing benchmarks blindly.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse