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0 pointshackyhacky2mo ago0 comments

Or: Steve Ballmer oversaw the decline of Mircosoft's flagship product, but left before he could be blamed for it.

A lot of Windows' current problems can be traced back to the Ballmer era, including the framework schizophrenia, as Microsoft shifted between Win32, UWP, WPF, and god knows what else. This has lead to the current chaotic and disjointed UI experience, and served to confuse and drive away developers. Repeatedly sacrificing reliable and consistent UX while chasing shiny and new technologies is no way to run an OS.

0 comments

drnick12mo ago

I think MS's biggest mistake was to not properly maintain and develop the Foundation Classes, basically a thin C++ wrapper library on top of the C API that retained most of the benefits of the Win32 API while eliminating a lot of the boilerplate code. Instead they went after Java with the .NET managed stuff, bloated and slow compared to the native API.

Qt is now the best "old school" UI framework by far.

franktankbank2mo ago

Experimentation is a cost center?

schmuckonwheels2mo ago

>including the framework schizophrenia, as Microsoft shifted between Win32, UWP, WPF

Ah yes, and the solution being presented is Linux, with Xlib, Motif, Qt, GTK, and your choice of 167 different desktop environments. Don't forget the whole Wayland schism.

Mac is no better, shifting SDKs every few years, except Apple goes one step further by breaking all legacy applications so you are forced to upgrade. Can't be schizo when you salt the earth and light a match to everything that came before the Current Thing.

steve19772mo ago

macOS has Cocoa since 2000, which is still useable, and SwiftUI since a few years. No comparison to the mess of UI toolkits on Windows.

schmuckonwheels2mo ago

And what about Carbon?

Gone.

32-bit apps?

Gone.

PowerPC stuff? Anything more than a few years old?

Forget it.

You can't even run versions of iPhoto or iTunes after they deliberately broke them and replaced them with objectively shittier equivalents. Their own apps!

Windows can still run programs from the 90s unmodified. There are VB6 apps from 1998 talking to Access databases still running small businesses today.

Can't say the same for either Mac or Linux.

It's not really a problem for Apple because their userbase is content to re-buy all their software every 5 years.

8 more replies

pjmlp2mo ago

I suggest paying attention to some mac development podcasts.

1 more reply

hackyhackyOP2mo ago

> Ah yes, and the solution being presented is Linux, with Xlib, Motif, Qt, GTK

I'm not going to descend into a "my OS's API is worse than yours" pissing match with you, because it's pointless and tangential. The issue is not "is the Windows framework situation worse than Linux" but rather "is the Windows framework situation worse than it used to be" and the answer is emphatically yes, and due mostly to Ballmer's obsession with chasing shiny things, such as that brief period when he decided that all Windows must look like a phone.

hulitu2mo ago

> Xlib, Motif, Qt, GTK,

Xlib and Motif are stable APIs. Qt and ... GTK on the other hand...

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

drnick12mo ago

Qt is now the best "old school" UI framework by far.

franktankbank2mo ago

Experimentation is a cost center?

schmuckonwheels2mo ago

>including the framework schizophrenia, as Microsoft shifted between Win32, UWP, WPF

Ah yes, and the solution being presented is Linux, with Xlib, Motif, Qt, GTK, and your choice of 167 different desktop environments. Don't forget the whole Wayland schism.

steve19772mo ago

macOS has Cocoa since 2000, which is still useable, and SwiftUI since a few years. No comparison to the mess of UI toolkits on Windows.

schmuckonwheels2mo ago

And what about Carbon?

Gone.

32-bit apps?

Gone.

PowerPC stuff? Anything more than a few years old?

Forget it.

You can't even run versions of iPhoto or iTunes after they deliberately broke them and replaced them with objectively shittier equivalents. Their own apps!

Windows can still run programs from the 90s unmodified. There are VB6 apps from 1998 talking to Access databases still running small businesses today.

Can't say the same for either Mac or Linux.

It's not really a problem for Apple because their userbase is content to re-buy all their software every 5 years.

8 more replies

pjmlp2mo ago

I suggest paying attention to some mac development podcasts.

1 more reply

hackyhackyOP2mo ago

> Ah yes, and the solution being presented is Linux, with Xlib, Motif, Qt, GTK

hulitu2mo ago

> Xlib, Motif, Qt, GTK,

Xlib and Motif are stable APIs. Qt and ... GTK on the other hand...

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse