Lock-Picking Robot (opens in new tab)

I think the lock picking lawyer's voice would drive me up the wall, not that I don't enjoy some of his content.

With current AI models, this may very well become true

Not really, once you have any materials issues with the vertical portion ironed out you just need a fine but rigid shaft within the body of the 'key' to bring it all the way out to where you have plenty of space to work. You'd need to have the shaft in a tight channel, but that's purely mechanical and should work just fine over even several inches.

not at all. sensitive strain gauges are commonplace.

I'm now imagining a sub-genre community like the 3D printer Benchy racing people.

A friendly competition to see who can build the fastest robot that can open a small range of the most commonly used locks.

> Snap guns break pins

They are a kinetic attack on the pins, but they don't shear or shatter them.

> Human lockpickers use feedback when picking.

Or discover when locks are built really badly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeDcOhWvq7I

Possible, but to do it at the level of precision needed for lockpicking would be a very expensive piece of equipment.

Right. The next step up is a robot that uses a Lishi tool and force feedback. Then one that just uses a single pin pick and a tensioning tool. This is a neat machine learning problem.

Har har. At the time I commented it was the top comments and a few replies

Still astounding in a place where "hackers" congregate.

Sure, but in this case they definitely are a hacker still since they did write code to achieve this.

Does anyone even know about the classic MIT Guide to Lockpicking? Back in the day, it was so entertaining to come across this while in grad school and enjoying reading it instead of working on actual work.

We are made to be technical tinkerers, playing with tech, seeing if sending that input to that program will crash it. I see it not as a moral issue but as a technical skill, to understand how to work with systems, explore what doesn't work. That way you gain skills in how to make things work better.

>> these days with small, powerful powertools.

Maybe when attacking a padlock on a highschool locker, or the door on an amazon-basics "safe", but try attacking something not primarily designed to be cheap/light. Try cracking the door on a money safe at a substantial business, a safe approved by an insurance provider for the storage of large sums, Even an ATM will resist power tools far longer than it will take the cops to show up.

I "belong" to a society? That suggests that a group owns me. Hrm I'm probably nit picking, but the idea of a society owning me isn't something I agree with. Also I'm free to leave.

Originally the word "hacker" made no distinction between the two meanings. This site is pretty old, so you're right, it was intended in the original "Kevin Mitnik" sense (the original hacker, who ironically would fall outside of the modern definition)

The modern acception focused on online computer security came much later. That meaning is neither the one used in the name of this site nor the one that would be relevant to this conversation.

To summarize: today's hackers are also yesterday's hackers, but yesterday's hackers may or may not be modern hackers.

Lock picking falls under jargon files definition of "hack" imo

Lockpicking can also be in that colors, AFAIK.

If I never hear nerds bicker over the various meanings of the word 'hacker' again, it will be too soon.

Definition 7 from the Jargon File:

"One who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations."

Thanks. Yeah, I was talking to a lock picker and his hourly rate is more than my attorney. He tells me, that is why he stopped being an attorney. Badda boom.

> use a $200 camera and photograph your keyring from a couple blocks away

Rayleigh criterion: to resolve an angle of 4E-6 rad (key bitting step is 0.015inch =~0.4mm , two blocks is 2 * 200ft =~100m), you'd need a ~140mm aperture lens. Can you really buy one (with a camera no less) for $200?

> use a $200 camera and photograph your keyring from a couple blocks away

I suppose serious defenders will need to get an EVVA MCS, if that's their threat model :-) Just don't let the really serious lockpickers near the lock with a contact microphone.

https://www.evva.com/int-en/products/mechanical-locking-syst...

The thing about a sledgehammer is that if you're asleep in your house, you, your dog, your SO, or your neighbors might be startled awake by the sound of metal splitting and cracking open. Your security system might be designed to alert on something like a window being smashed. The person attempting to enter the house may be trying to enter undetected, because they know that a broken lock and/or a replaced lock will alert the people they're trying to ambush or steal from. Imagine something like industrial espionage, where a person breaks in undetected, steals an item, and then leaves. The occupant only realizes the item is gone a week later, and wonders if they could've misplaced it. In your scenario, they'd see the sledgehammered lock and immediately call the cops.

I see comments like these all the time on Reddit and Hackernews. Hackers are like, "locks aren't security, a sledgehammer breaks them" and it appears to betray a mental threat model of "what if the cops want my thing" and never "what if someone wishes to do me harm while I am in my house" or "what if a criminal wants to not get caught taking my things" or "what if someone wants to lie in wait in my house", which are not risks to these commenters. They are to a lot of people though.

They also allow you to distinguish legitimate operations. Maybe that armed guard isn't sophisticated enough to realise that your ID is fake, but they do know that you're supposed to use a key to open these lock, you were not supposed to turn up and smash one open -- which means that maybe you're not who you say you are after all and best you stay right there while they call somebody.

Easy picks can mess with that. If I can open this with my tools in two shakes of a lamb's tail because the tolerances are far too big probably that guard doesn't notice, whereas if I'm there heaving and grimacing for ten minutes, or I need a sledgehammer or an angle grinder, they'd have to be completely moronic not to realise I'm not on the up-and-up.

I have seen cops use lockpicking guns while serving warrants. I would much rather them do that then break the door down. Hopefully projects like this can make this better. Even though it’s cool enough on its own to exist just because

Even if the person is stone guilty I don’t think the police should be willy nilly destroying property in the process of serving a warrant.

I know much of the focus is rightly on increasing accountability for the damage done to humans, but I always cringe at the thought of how much damage they can cause while performing a search. Imagine if your kid, or roommate had a warrant and they came in, smashed all your drywall and left you with the bill.

Eh, its more that any one security tactic will almost certainly not cover the entire threat space.

Locks are very good at discouraging honest people and lazy, opportunistic people. They are not very good at discouraging generally skilled and motivated people, or people who are specifically interested in what's behind a specific door.

Locks are no obstacle if the intruder is willing to use social engineering. But if all they're trying to do is get into my garden shed, they're going to have to manipulate me or my spouse. Or somehow get past my dog. Meanwhile, my dog has absolutely no bearing on a bad actor getting access to my bank account. But similarly, bringing the full might of the best electronic security to bear to protect a chainsaw and a rake seems a bit excessive. And sort of beside the point, since I've not built my garden shed to withstand creation of an additional door (by e.g. a sawzall or a fireaxe).