When I see politics in software updates or documentation, nothing happens because I'm not looking to use the software for political activism. Maybe I tell my adblocker to remove the messaging, and carry on with my task.
I can engage with politics in a social context, when political messaging isn't interrupting something else I'm doing; that's a better place for activism, IMHO.
I almost always see activists using the argument that if I don't like the messaging then I'm part of the problem. Somehow I doubt that, given I don't mind messaging at all, where it's appropriate.
So, while I fully agree with your stance that banning political discourse is support for the status quo, I also think that it's reasonable to ask for it to be toned down a bit, especially when the politics and social issues of one country is basically drowning out everything else.
All that said, I'm talking mostly about HN or other community forums here. The owner of Notepad++ has the right to put whatever they want into their software, and if we're discussing that here on HN then it's an occasion where discussing politics is valid.
Unfortunately, US politics also drives tech issues elsewhere like the EU. For example, local data control is a big thing that some of us have been screaming about forever but nobody paid attention to--until US politics made it a hot button issue.
And, to be honest, if the EU would get off its ass and at least try to foster some alternatives, even those of us in the US would benefit. EU alternatives would mean that people in the US could finally vote against the megajillionaires with their wallets.
> Americans, including people here, seem uniquely incapable of nuance in their thinking when it comes to politics.
Bullets and beatings don't leave much room for nuance regardless of country.
I mean, yeah. Most major social media services used in the West are based in the US. The single largest English as a first language population is in the United States.
Given how many users from outside the US are oft wont to opine on our state of affairs even during the good times - often without even being asked - I like to think they'll endure our discourse.
I read about politics all day long in many different places. My belief that HN should be relatively free of such stories is not because I believe I can detach myself from politics, but because I believe topic based forums are more valuable and useful than “anything goes” forums.
Political opinions about how things should be don't automatically dictate the actions that should be taken in support of those opinions. I can be mad about a law or a court decision and still have the good sense to, for example, not throw red paint on a lawmaker or judge.
Some behaviors just aren't helpful, and neither being right nor being upset changes that.
Notepad++ is free, open source software for which there are dozens of alternative packages of equivalent quality. The entire cost of using this software and benefiting from the work of the developer, is having to scroll past or close a few political opinions.
If the reaction, if someone vehemently dislikes this sort of thing, is to tell that developer to "just shut up and make your software" rather than to stop using that software? Then I think that's possibly the most entitled and hypocritical position that I think it's possible to have.
The good sense is your judgement. At some point a real, direct, disruptive protest is going to be the right solution for a big enough group of people. Peaceful protests are just a "we're starting to get there" signal. It's not like politicians normally say "gee, lots of people don't like how I abuse power, I guess I'll stop now". It's all about being collectively upset enough about status quo.
In the context of forums, the political threads are generally /not interesting/[0]. Political threads often devolve; they bring nothing 'new' or 'fresh' to the table, and they lead absolutely no where. It's a fart-in-the-wind situation no matter what your position is. Leave that stuff on reddit where the rest of the farts-in-the-wind go to waste. It's like watching commentators on Fox News or CNN or <insert favorite cable TV show here>. They're a large waste of time and they're often geared towards re-enforcing your side, aka echo chamber.
Now, if a thread actually evolved into real measurable action, that might actually be interesting. But that's not what happens on these forums. There's probably very few of us that see some HN thread talking about something awful happening somewhere and they take direct action, such as petitioning their government, protesting, etc. It's probably happened once or twice, but most of the farts in those threads just hang around and stink up the place.
Please stop stinking up HN.
No, it explicitly is not, and this "deepity" doesn't change any rational analysis. The injection of politics into every aspect of society must and should be refused.
HN discussions are usually very high quality and respectful disagreement therein, which is unique online nowadays.
I’ve come here to escape Reddit, which is all politics all the time. If this place turns as political as Reddit, I’m out.
If this is true, I'd like to know what a weak political view is instead!
apparently, it's OK to have this stance of "if you're not with us, you're against us".
It's absolutely possible to not want political discussions in various places - it doesn't mean you support one or the other side. It simply means you don't want that discussion here. You could support the incumbents or not - not wanting the discussion does not imply support for the incumbents.
They are making a mistake I was never political!
Conveniently, it's never here, and it's never now. I think MLK Junior wrote a speech about this? Letter from a Birmingham Jail: https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham....
I considered the majority of the population to be affected by repeated messaging, messages in the background, or in other words availability bias. So the messaging be having the desired effect on society in general but not on some subset who filter it out completely.
I see this as a bad analogy though: you wouldn't hear about it every time you go to the grocery store. Or, at the very least, you wouldn't stop and listen for the fifth time. You already know, and that's the point: the intention of most activism in technology (at least that I see) is to make you initially aware of it so you start to seek the information out and learn more elsewhere. (...And to give themselves good PR. We love rainbow capitalism /s)
Instagram and Twitter both get your attention during election season because they want you to be informed about how to vote. To me, that's a similar thing.
I don't want to either, and indeed I really want others to do it for me. As such, I really want to see even MORE political stuff like this to hopefully create folks who will actually protest and put their neck on the line.
Similar reason why US military propaganda is good. I never EVER want to be drafted and indeed if you put a gun in my hand and military fatigues on me, I will die with a shot in the ass (because I am running away). Thankfully, we have a bunch of hardened 20-somethings "manipulated" into joining the military and protecting us so that I can be lazy.
So please ratchet up the politics and get others out so I don't have to. It's not that hard to ignore yet another plea for help. We do it every hour of every day.
There is such a thing as being able to act and think in ways that aren't political in nature. Maybe not for you, but it absolutely is possible.
Politics are quite literally life-or-death for many people. War is politics. Access to healthcare is politics. Economic policy that determines whether businesses and careers succeed or fail is politics. Freedom to say what you want, believe or not believe in whatever religion you want, and be who you are without being imprisoned is politics. The people who make the most noise about politics are the people who are literally dying for as long as the rest of society ignores their plight.
If this isn't the case for you, it's because you benefit from the status quo. It is the definition of privilege to be able to "ignore politics". That means you are currently benefitting from politics. Of course you don't want to hear about politics, politics are doing just fine for you. And the comment you were asking to was asking you to reflect on that: if the biggest problem gracing you is hearing other people make noise about circumstances, the least you could do is deal with it. Your problems are trivial if that is what gets you upset. Other people are complaining about things that affect the outcome of their lives and you're complaining about... having to hear it.
We are all Schmittian now
we are just sick of propaganda. And of pissing contests. And of "mine is longer than yours" content.
Before I respond to your comment, allow me first to acknowledge the following injustices happening in the world:
* war in gaza
* war in ukraine
* civil war in sudan
* civil war in yemen
* civil war in myanmar
* ethnic violence in syria
* insurgent attacks in nigeria
* insurgent attacks in congo
* attacks on protesters in Iran
...
Wait, what's that? You don't want every comment to start with some sort of land acknowledgement-esque disclaimer of all injustices happening in the world? What are you, some sort of gaza war/ukraine war/sudanese civil war/ ... sympathizer? Tens, if not hundreds of millions have been affected by the event listed above, so at the very least you can spare a thought for them before discussing about some text editor getting compromised? You might argue acknowledging the war in gaza is beating a dead horse, but do you think the median HN reader has thought about the civil war in myanmar in the past month?
Your comment is a good example of it; who is dictator? The people who hacked the software or the political pole they support? At what point did they become fascist enough to warrant politicalisation of everything ?
The politicisation of software is as harmful as requiring every research paper to be published with a political allegiance banner.
Software like most Sciences, Engineering, and, Trade is a much longer game for humanity than politics de jour.
It is easy to forget the extent of contributions from all sides of politics that has contributed to this trade, from Mohammed Algorithm to English, Russian, Chinese, and, everyone else to computing; but forgetting that and forging that for quick political hack points is a disservice to humanity.
Not really, software, like sciences and engineering must survive politics first. If humans start tossing around nukes like angry apes then those that survive may be scratching simple arithmetic with a charcoal stick on a cave wall.
Freedom of speech is political.
The right to privacy is political.
Letting people on to the Internet without censorship is political.
Government policies that support startups are political.
Threatening to arrest teens for pirating mp3s is political.
> I can engage with politics in a social context, when political messaging isn't interrupting something else I'm doing; that's a better place for activism, IMHO.
For the people actually impacted by politics, reality rarely waits for a convenient time to interrupt.
Political reality tends to knock down doors and blow up buildings when it wants to really get someone's attention. "Don't bother me during my software updates" is a privileged position to be able to take.
http://iccf-holland.org/ http://www.vim.org/iccf/ http://www.iccf.nl/
You can also sponsor the development of Vim. Vim sponsors can vote for features. See |sponsor|. The money goes to Uganda anyway.
When you launch a plain nvim instance you get the following:
> Help poor children in Uganda!
> type :help Kuwasha<Enter> for information
I would argue that this has been an effective avenue for messaging/protest. You’re responding to it on this very board - that means you’re thinking about it.
Another angle: would such free protest be allowed if the developers of Notepad++ were based in China or Russia? I seriously doubt it.
I don’t think I am the only one who has this reaction. People who do this should consider if it’s actually helping their cause. If not it’s just feelgood signaling, or possibly even counterproductive.
So what about protesting the Russian invasion of Ukraine seems objectionable to you?
> it is fair to say that Notepad++’s freedom to protest would depend on who and what they are protesting.
What? In the US, UK, and Australia, the right to protest (i.e. of speech) does not depend on what’s being protested in the way you’re implying.
He who politicizes everything politicizes nothing.
I think about a lot of things I do absolutely nothing about (or with).
Thinking about whatever messaging is here is like saying "thoughts and prayers". It means shit all nothing. The messaging was a waste of my time and your time. It was an ad for a product you'll never purchase.
- US arguing for independence of any of the States for whatever reasons?
- Spain for Catalonia?
- France for Basque?
and many more just in Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_separatist_move...
> Yeah, Notepad++ is known for political messaging in their updates. Taiwan, Ukraine, etc.
If you’re calling Ukraine in particular a “separatist movement”, I don’t think we can have a productive conversation.
You can’t be against the Ukraine war in Russia because Putin is an evil dictator
You know that's official position of 99% countries in the world, including all superpowers and every NATO member?
Everyone, including 99% of the world's politicians that don't have their heads up their asses, including the ones who wrote the official positions that Taiwan is not a country, knows Taiwan is a country.
99% countries, as they say, "acknowledge China's viewpoint".
As one should, I avoid stuff that have a very loud fascist author/owner. So we should be happy for this people to show what they believe in, this way we can decide not to help fascists(and others can decide to support them and not to help one of the other sides)
Being political isn’t a hobby you attend on Tuesdays, it’s real decision that affect people’s lives every single day, sometimes with deadly consequences.
> People will tell me again to not mix politics with software/business. Doing so surely impacts the popularity of Notepad++: talking about politics is exactly what software and commercial companies generally try to avoid. The problem is, if we don’t deal with politics, politics will deal with us. We can choose to not act when people are being oppressed, but when it’s our turn to be oppressed, it will be too late and there will be no one for us. You don’t need to be Uyghur or a Muslim to act, you need only to be a human and have empathy for our fellow humans.
I find this take deeply ironic.
And here due to alleged political take of some software (Notepad++), __state sponsored software__ was used to attack users of said software. Something actually happened!
You don't want to see politics in any software, but may be (or already are) a victim of political software attack (from state sponsored tracking, to sanctions, to political psy-ops through software distributing (social) media).
> <...> Maybe I tell my adblocker to remove the messaging, and carry on with my task. > > I can engage with politics in a social context, when political messaging isn't interrupting something else I'm doing; that's a better place for activism, IMHO.
You are clearly annoyed by ads, like many of us - maybe you should get public attention to change policy about ads? How they are annoying? How there are unskippable Ads in TV services that I pay money for? How there are big enterprises using their monopoly/oligopoly powers to make you stop being able to adblock ever again? Or do you only block ads you deem "political"?
_______
States (and not only them) will use software and even open source software (open source IMHO is also a political take/view) to get to you if it's ever needed. Though congrats you just got extra social credits in __both__: China's and Palantir's databases!
Free Software is inherently political. It’s like ordering a cheeseburger and being shocked that it has meat in it.
