undefined | Better HN

0 pointsffsm83mo ago0 comments

While I don't subscribe to the idea that you shouldn't look at the code - it's a lot more plausible for devs because you do actually have ways to validate the code without looking at it.

E.g you technically don't need to look at the code if it's frontend code and part of the product is a e2e test which produces a video of the correct/full behavior via playwright or similar.

Same with backend implementations which have instrumentation which expose enough tracing information to determine if the expected modules were encountered etc

I wouldn't want to work with coworkers which actually think that's a good idea though

0 comments

Pay083mo ago

If you tried this shit in a real engineering principle, you'd end up either homeless or in prison in very short order.

ffsm8OP3mo ago

You might notice that these real engineering jobs also don't have a way to verify the product via tests like that though, which was my point.

And that's ignoring that your statement technically isn't even true, because the engineers actually working in such fields are very few (i.e. designing bridges, airplanes etc).

The majority of them design products where safety isn't nearly as high stakes as that... And they frequently do overspec (wasting money) or underspec (increasing wastage) to boot.

This point has been severely overstated on HN, honestly.

Sorry, but had to get that off my chest.

quickthrowman3mo ago

> You might notice that these real engineering jobs also don't have a way to verify the product via tests like that though, which was my point.

The electrical engineers at my employer that design building electrical distribution systems have software that handles all of the calculations, it’s just math. Arc flash hazard analysis, breaker coordination studies, available fault current, etc. All manufacturers provide the data needed to perform these calculations for their products.

Other engineering disciplines have similar tools. Mechanical, civil, and structural engineers all use software that simulates their designs.

ffsm8OP3mo ago

Okay, honestly asking: do you really think your outlined simulation meet the same bar as automated regression tests like

> E.g you technically don't need to look at the code if it's frontend code and part of the product is a e2e test which produces a video of the correct/full behavior via playwright or similar.

> Same with backend implementations which have instrumentation which expose enough tracing information to determine if the expected modules were encountered etc

If not, your quoted sentence was "tests like that". If yes... I guess we would have to disagree.

1 more reply

skydhash3mo ago

> You might notice that these real engineering jobs also don't have a way to verify the product via tests though, which was my point.

Are you sure? Simulators and prototypes abound. By the time you’re building the real, it’s more like rehearsal and solving a fe problems instead of every intricacy in the formula.

joquarky3mo ago

Are you describing the ideal that they should be doing, or are you describing what you have observed actually happens in practice?

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

Pay083mo ago

If you tried this shit in a real engineering principle, you'd end up either homeless or in prison in very short order.

ffsm8OP3mo ago

You might notice that these real engineering jobs also don't have a way to verify the product via tests like that though, which was my point.

And that's ignoring that your statement technically isn't even true, because the engineers actually working in such fields are very few (i.e. designing bridges, airplanes etc).

The majority of them design products where safety isn't nearly as high stakes as that... And they frequently do overspec (wasting money) or underspec (increasing wastage) to boot.

This point has been severely overstated on HN, honestly.

Sorry, but had to get that off my chest.

quickthrowman3mo ago

> You might notice that these real engineering jobs also don't have a way to verify the product via tests like that though, which was my point.

Other engineering disciplines have similar tools. Mechanical, civil, and structural engineers all use software that simulates their designs.

ffsm8OP3mo ago

Okay, honestly asking: do you really think your outlined simulation meet the same bar as automated regression tests like

> E.g you technically don't need to look at the code if it's frontend code and part of the product is a e2e test which produces a video of the correct/full behavior via playwright or similar.

> Same with backend implementations which have instrumentation which expose enough tracing information to determine if the expected modules were encountered etc

If not, your quoted sentence was "tests like that". If yes... I guess we would have to disagree.

1 more reply

skydhash3mo ago

> You might notice that these real engineering jobs also don't have a way to verify the product via tests though, which was my point.

Are you sure? Simulators and prototypes abound. By the time you’re building the real, it’s more like rehearsal and solving a fe problems instead of every intricacy in the formula.

joquarky3mo ago

Are you describing the ideal that they should be doing, or are you describing what you have observed actually happens in practice?

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse