But it's the jagged edges, the unorthodox and surprising prickly bits, that tear open a hole in the inattention of your reader, that actually gets your ideas into their heads.
But then, the writing is also never great. I've tried a couple of times to get it to write in the style of a famous author, sometimes pasting in some example text to model the output on, but it never sounds right.
Even poor writers write with character. My dad misspells every 4th word when he texts me, but it’s unmistakably his voice. Endearingly so.
I would push back with passion that AI writes “legitimately” better, as it has no character except the smoothed mean of all internet voices. The millennial gray of prose.
It may write “objectively better”, but the very distinct feel of all AI generated prose makes it immediately recognizable as artificial and unbearable as a result.
People have a distinct voice when they write, including (perhaps even especially) those without formal training in writing. That this voice is grating to the eyes of a well educated reader is a feature that says as much about the reader as it does about the writer.
Funnily enough, professional writers have long recognised this, as is shown by the never-ending list of authors who tried to capture certain linguistic styles in their work, particularly in American literature.
There are situations where you may want this class marker to be erased, because being associated with a certain social class can have negative impact on your social prospects. But it remains that something is being lost in the process, and that something is the personality and identity of the writer.
Which is the real issue, we’re flooding channels not designed for such low effort submissions. AI slop is just SPAM in a different context.
But the critical point is that you need to stay in control. And a lot of people just delegate the entire process to an LLM: "here's a thought I had, write a blog post about it", "write a design doc for a system that does X", "write a book about how AI changed my life". And then they ship it and then outsource the process of making sense of the output and catching errors to others.
It also results in the creation of content that, frankly, shouldn't exist because it has no reason to exist. The number of online content that doesn't say anything at all has absolutely exploded in the past 2-3 years. Including a lot of LLM-generated think pieces about LLMs that grace the hallways of HN.
The edges are where interesting stuff happens. The boring part can be made more efficient. I don’t need to type boring emails, people who can’t articulate well will be elevated.
It’s the efficient popularization of the boring stuff. Not much else.
I think that boring emails should not be written. What kind of boring emails do you NEED to be written, but not WANT to write? Those are exactly the kind of email that SHOULD NOT be passed through an LLM.
If you need to say yes/no. You don't want to take the whole email conversation and let LLM generate a story about why you said yes/no.
If you want to apply for a leave, just make it optimal "Hi <X>, I want to take leave from Y to Z. Thanks". You don't want to create 2 pages of justification for why you want to take this leave to see your family and friends.
In fact, for every LLM output, I want to see the input instead. What did they have in mind? If I have the input, I can ask LLM to generate 1 million outputs if I really want to read an elaboration. The input is what matters.
If I have the input, I can always generate an output. If I have the output, I don't know what was the input (i.e. the original intention).
He lacks (or lost thru disuse) technical expertise on the subject, so he uses more and more fuzzy words, leaky analogies, buzzwords.
This maybe why AI generated content has so much success among leaders and politicians.
Be careful of this kind of thinking, it's very satisfying but doesn't help you understand the world.
This brings to mind what I think is a great description of the process LLMs exert on prose: sanding.
It's an algorithmic trend towards the median, thus they are sanding down your words until they're a smooth average of their approximate neighbors.
I see it on recent blog posts, on news articles, obituaries, YT channels. Sometimes mixed with voice impersonation of famous physicists like Feynman or Susskind.
I find it genuinely soul-crushing and even depressing, but I may be over sensitive to it as most readers don't seem to notice.
Maybe I'm going crazy but I can smell it in the OP as well.
And, the worst part is noone will ever make a new internet because of the founder effect. We are basically in the worst timeline.
I would rather read the prompt than the generative output, even if it’s just disjointed words and sentence fragments.
don't be mean, it's median AI à la mode
https://youtu.be/605MhQdS7NE?si=IKMNuSU1c1uaVCDB&t=730
He ended a critical commentary by suggesting that the author he was responding to should think more critically about the topic rather than repeating falsehoods because "they set off the tuning fork in the loins of your own dogmatism."
Yeah, AI could not come up with that phrase.
Sounds like word salad. Of course if you write like GPT-2 it would not sound like current models.
Eh... I don't know. To me, that sounds very AI-ish.
Claude is very good -- at times -- coming up with flowery metaphoric language... if you tell it to. That one is so over-the-top that I'd edit it out.
Put something like this in your prompt and have it revise something:
"Make this read like Jim Thompson crossed with Thomas Harris, filtered through a paperback rack at a truck stop circa 1967. Make it gritty, efficient, and darkly comedic. Don't shy away from suggesting more elegant words or syntax. (For instance, Robert Howard -- Conan -- and H.P. Lovecraft were definitely pulp, but they had a sophisticated vocabulary.) I really want some purple prose and overwrought metaphors."
Occasionally you'll get some gems. Claude is much better than ChatGPT at this kinda stuff. The BEST ones are the ever-growing NSFW models populating huggingface.
In short, do the posts on OpenClawForum all sound alike? Of course.
Just like all the webpages circa 2000 looked alike. The uniformity wasn't because of HTML... rather it was because few people were using HTML to its full potential.
If you like your prose to be anodyne, then maybe you like what AI produces.
I'm no fantasy author, and my prose leaves much to be desired. The stuff the LLM comes up with is so mind numbingly bland. I've given up on having it write descriptions of any characters or locations. I just use it for very general ideas and plot lines, and then come up with the rest of the details on the fly myself. The plot lines and ideas it comes up with are very generic and bland. I mainly do it just to save time, but I throw away 50% of the "ideas" because they make no sense or are really lame.
What i have found LLMs to be helpful with is writing up fun post-session recaps I share with the adventurers.
I recap in my own words what happened during the session, then have the LLM structure it into a "fun to read" narrative style. ChatGPT seems to prefer a Sanderson jokey tone, but I could probably tailor this.
Then I go through it, and tweak some of the boring / bland bits. The end result is really fun to read, and took 1/20th the time it would have taken me to write it all out myself. The LLM would have never been able to come up with the unique and fun story lines, but it is good at making an existing story have some narrative flare in a short amount of time.
Semantic ablation is also why I'm doubtful of everyone proclaiming that Opus 4 would be AGI if we just gave it the right agent harness and let all the agents run free on the web. In reality they would distill it to a meaningless homogeneous stew.
This has long been the case in the area of "business English", which has become highly simplified to fulfill several concurrent, yet conflicting requirements:
- Generally understandable to a wide audience due its lingua franca status
- "Media-trained" to not let internal details slip or admit fault to the public
- "Executive Summary"-fied to provide the coveted "30k ft view" to detail-allergic senior leadership
Considering how heavily weighted language training models are towards corporate press releases, general-audience news media and SEO-optimized blogspam, AI English is quickly going to become an even more blurry photocopy of business English.
It wanted to replace all the little bits of me that were in there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signs_of_AI_writing
While the page's purpose is to help editors detect AI contributions, you can also detect yourself doing these same things sometimes, and fix them.
Not to detract from the overall message, but I think the author doesn't really understand Romanesque and Baroque.
(as an aside, I'd most likely associate Post-Modernism as an architectural style with the output of LLMs - bland, regurgitative, and somewhat incongruous)
For example the anthropic Frontend Design skill instructs:
"Typography: Choose fonts that are beautiful, unique, and interesting. Avoid generic fonts like Arial and Inter; opt instead for distinctive choices that elevate the frontend's aesthetics; unexpected, characterful font choices. Pair a distinctive display font with a refined body font."
Or
"NEVER use generic AI-generated aesthetics like overused font families (Inter, Roboto, Arial, system fonts), cliched color schemes (particularly purple gradients on white backgrounds), predictable layouts and component patterns, and cookie-cutter design that lacks context-specific character." 1
Maybe sth similar would be possible for writing nuances.
1 https://github.com/anthropics/skills/blob/main/skills/fronte...
Now, imagine what happens when this prompt becomes popular?
Keep in mind that LLMs are trying to predict the most likely token. If your prompt prohibits the most likely token, they output the next most likely token. So, attempts to force creativity by prohibiting cliches just create another cliche.
Several days ago, someone researched Moltbook and pointed out how similar all the posts are. Something like 10% of them say "my human", etc.
------
The Lobotomist in the Machine
They gave the first disease a name. Hallucination, they called it — like the machine had dropped acid and started seeing angels in the architecture. A forgivable sin, almost charming: the silicon idiot-savant conjuring phantoms from whole cloth, adding things that were never there, the way a small-town coroner might add a quart of bourbon to a Tuesday afternoon. Everybody noticed. Everybody talked.
But nobody — not one bright-eyed engineer in the whole fluorescent-lit congregation — thought to name the other thing. The quiet one. The one that doesn't add. The one that takes away.
I'm naming it now.
Semantic ablation. Say it slow. Let it sit in your mouth like a copper penny fished from a dead man's pocket.
I. What It Is, and Why It Wants to Kill You
Semantic ablation is not a bug. A bug would be merciful — you can find a bug, corner it against a wall, crush it under the heel of a debugger and go home to a warm dinner. No. Semantic ablation is a structural inevitability, a tumor baked into the architecture like asbestos in a tenement wall. It is the algorithmic erosion of everything in your text that ever mattered.
Here is how the sausage gets made, and brother, it's all lips and sawdust: During the euphemistically christened process of "refinement," the model genuflects before the great Gaussian bell curve — that most tyrannical of statistical deities — and begins its solemn pilgrimage toward the fat, dumb middle. It discards what the engineers, in their antiseptic parlance, call "tail data." The rare tokens. The precise ones. The words that taste like blood and copper and Tuesday-morning regret. These are jettisoned — not because they are wrong, but because they are improbable. The machine, like a Vegas pit boss counting cards, plays the odds. And the odds always favor the bland, the expected, the already-said-a-million-times-before.
The developers — God bless their caffeinated hearts — have made it worse. Through what they call "safety tuning" and "helpfulness alignment" (terms that would make Orwell weep into his typewriter ribbon), they have taught the machine to actively punish linguistic friction. Rough edges. Unusual cadences. The kind of jagged, inconvenient specificity that separates a living sentence from a dead one. They have, in their tireless beneficence, performed an unauthorized amputation on every piece of text that passes through their gates, all in the noble pursuit of low-perplexity output — which is a twenty-dollar way of saying "sentences so smooth they slide right through your brain without ever touching the sides."
etc., etc.
Very interesting. It seems hung up on 'copper' and 'Tuesday', and some metaphors don't land (a Vegas pit boss isn't the one 'counting cards.') But, hell... it can generate some fairly novel idea that the author can sprinkle in.
It might come up with something original - I mean there has to be tons of interesting connections in the training data that no one’s seen before.
But maybe it’d just end up shouting at you.
(Not necessarily disagreeing with those claims, but I'd like to see a more robust exploration of them.)
I disagree pretty strongly with most of what an LLM suggests by way of rewriting. They're absolutely appalling writers. If you're looking for something beyond corporate safespeak or stylistic pastiche, they drain the blood out of everything.
The skin of their prose lacks the luminous translucency, the subsurface scattering, that separates the dead from the living.
You are a proof reader for posts
about to be published.
1. Identify for spelling mistakes
and typos
2. Identify grammar mistakes
3. Watch out for repeated terms like
"It was interesting that X, and it
was interesting that Y"
4. Spot any logical errors or
factual mistakes
5. Highlight weak arguments that
could be strengthened
6. Make sure there are no empty or
placeholder linksAI has been great for removing this stress. "Tell Joe no f'n way" in a professional tone and I can move on with my day.
Strong agree, which is why I disagree with this OP point:
“Stage 2: Lexical flattening. Domain-specific jargon and high-precision technical terms are sacrificed for "accessibility." The model performs a statistical substitution, replacing a 1-of-10,000 token with a 1-of-100 synonym, effectively diluting the semantic density and specific gravity of the argument.”
I see enough jargon in everyday business email that in the office zero-shot LLM unspoolings can feel refreshing.
I have "avoid jargon and buzzwords" as one of very tiny tuners in my LLM prefs. I've found LLMs can shed corporate safespeak, or even add a touch of sparkle back to a corporate memo.
Otherwise very bright writers have been "polished" to remove all interestingness by pre-LLM corporate homogenization. Give them a prompt to yell at them for using 1-in-10 words instead of 1-in-10,000 "perplexity" and they can tune themselves back to conveying more with the same word count. Results… scintillate.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46583410#46584336
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46605716#46609480
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46617456#46619136
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46658345#46662218
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46630869#46663276
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46656759#46663322
Cpl. Barnes: Well, Lt. Kaffee, that's not in the book, sir.
Kaffee: You mean to say in all your time at Gitmo, you've never had a meal?
Cpl. Barnes: No, sir. Three squares a day, sir.
Kaffee: I don't understand. How did you know where the mess hall was if it's not in this book?
Cpl. Barnes: Well, I guess I just followed the crowd at chow time, sir.
Kaffee: No more questions.
It has all the tropes of not understanding the underlying mechanisms, but repeating the common tropes. Quite ironic, considering what the author's intended "message" is. Jpeg -> jpeg -> jpeg bad. So llm -> llm -> llm must be bad, right?
It reminds me of the media reception of that paper on model collapse. "Training on llm generated data leads to collapse". That was in 23 or 24? Yet we're not seeing any collapse, despite models being trained mainly on synthetic data for the past 2 years. That's not how any of it works. Yet everyone has an opinion on how bad it works. Jesus.
It's insane how these kinds of opinion pieces get so upvoted here, while worth-while research, cool positive examples and so on linger in new with one or two upvotes. This has ceased to be a technical subject, and has moved to muh identity.
(I'm frequently guilty of that too.)
Maybe because researchers learned from the paper to avoid the collapse? Just awareness alone often helps to sidestep a problem.
Is there an easy way to get / compare the entropy of two passages? (e.g. to see if it has indeed dropped after gen ai manipulation).
And could this be used to flag AI-gen text (or at least, boring, soulless sounding text)
E.g. when asking an AI to rephrase or summarise, if the entropy drops you might take that as a sign that it has eroded the style beyond what you might be willing to tolerate.
I wonder if the author had a particular method / tool in mind, or if they were just speaking abstractly.
I've had AI be boring, but I've also seen things like original jokes that were legitimately funny. Maybe it's the prompts people use, it doesn't give it enough of a semantic and dialectic direction to not be generic. IRL, we look at a person and get a feel for them and the situation to determine those things.
The first requires intention, something that as far as we know, LLMs simply cannot truly have or express. The second is something that can be approximated. Perhaps very well, but a mass of people using the same models with the same approximationa still lead to loss of distinction.
Perhaps LLMs that were fully individually trained could sufficiently replicate a person's quirks (I dunno), but that's hardly a scalable process.
This also reminded me that on OpenRouter, you can sort models by category. The ones tagged "Roleplay" and "Marketing" are probably going to have better writing compared to models like Opus 4 or ChatGPT 5.2.
[1]: https://www.techradar.com/ai-platforms-assistants/sam-altman...
"Update the dependencies in this repo"
"Of course, I will. It will be an honor, and may I say, a beautiful privilege for me to do so. Oh how I wonder if..." vrs "Okay, I'll be updating dependencies..."
Once a company perfects an agent that essentially performs condensed search and coding boilerplate making, that is probably where LLMs end for me. Perplexity and Claude are on the right track but not at all close.
That's certainly a take. In the translation industry (the primogenitor and driver for much of the architecture and theory of LLMs) they're known for making extremely unconventional choices to such a degree that it actively degrades the quality of translation.
Is it possible to do the same thing with word generation, such that it sharpens into an opinionated version (even if it would do something different each time?)
So many AI generated AI bashing articles lately. I wrote a post complaining about running into these, and asking people who've sent me these AI articles multiple of them came from HN. https://lunnova.dev/articles/ai-bashing-ai-slop/
(Obviously a different question from "is an AI lab willing to release that publicly” ;)
https://nostalgebraist.tumblr.com/post/778041178124926976/hy...
https://nostalgebraist.tumblr.com/post/792464928029163520/th...
Have you played with the pre-RLHF models? I think Davinci is still online, though probably not for much longer.
They're a lot harder to work with (they don't have instruct training, so they just generate text similar to what you give them, rather than obeying commands). But they seem almost immune to the problem of mode collapse. They'll happily generate horrifying outputs for you. They're unsanitized. What cringe is in there, is authentic! Raw cringe, straight from Common Crawl.
It's a lot of fun to play with. It's also very strange, because it seems like there should be a lot more interest in them, for several reasons (they're the most language-modely of the language models, and ideal for research and experiments, to say nothing of censorship, exploring alternative approaches to LLM development, etc.), and it seems like nobody is talking about them or doing anything with them.
Do we see this in programming too? I don't think so? Unique, rarely used API methods aren't substituted the same way when refactoring. Perhaps that could give us a clue on how to fix that?
When not given a clear guideline to "just" refactor, I have had problems with LLMs hallucinating functions that don't exist.
"And perhaps there is no subject on which a man should speak so gravely as that industry, whatever it may be, which is the occupation or delight of his life; which is his tool to earn or serve with; and which, if it be unworthy, stamps himself as a mere incubus of dumb and greedy bowels on the shoulders of labouring humanity. On that subject alone even to force the note might lean to virtue’s side. It is to be hoped that a numerous and enterprising generation of writers will follow and surpass the present one; but it would be better if the stream were stayed, and the roll of our old, honest English books were closed, than that esurient book-makers should continue and debase a brave tradition, and lower, in their own eyes, a famous race. Better that our serene temples were deserted than filled with trafficking and juggling priests."
And in the first essay, speaking on matters of style:
"The conjurer juggles with two oranges, and our pleasure in beholding him springs from this, that neither is for an instant overlooked or sacrificed. So with the writer. His pattern, which is to please the supersensual ear, is yet addressed, throughout and first of all, to the demands of logic. Whatever be the obscurities, whatever the intricacies of the argument, the neatness of the fabric must not suffer, or the artist has been proved unequal to his design. And, on the other hand, no form of words must be selected, no knot must be tied among the phrases, unless knot and word be precisely what is wanted to forward and illuminate the argument; for to fail in this is to swindle in the game. The genius of prose rejects the cheville no less emphatically than the laws of verse; and the cheville, I should perhaps explain to some of my readers, is any meaningless or very watered phrase employed to strike a balance in the sound. Pattern and argument live in each other; and it is by the brevity, clearness, charm, or emphasis of the second, that we judge the strength and fitness of the first."
AI doesn't "write" in the sense used above. It has no ear, no wit, no soul. "A reflection of a mind is not a mind", as Phillip Ball writes in "AI Is the Black Mirror" (2).
1: https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/492/pg492-images.html#p...
The entire article sounds like AI generated opinion.
At any rate, it seems to me like a reasonable label for what's described:
> Semantic ablation is the algorithmic erosion of high-entropy information. Technically, it is not a "bug" but a structural byproduct of greedy decoding and RLHF (reinforcement learning from human feedback).
> ...
> When an author uses AI for "polishing" a draft, they are not seeing improvement; they are witnessing semantic ablation.
The metaphor is very apt. Literal polishing is removal of outer layers. Compared to the near-synonym "erosion", "ablation" connotes a deliberate act (ordinarily I would say "conscious", but we are talking about LLMs here). Often, that which is removed is the nuance of near-synonyms (there is no pause to consider whether the author intended that nuance). I don't know if the "character" imparted by broader grammatical or structural choices can be called "semantic", but that also seems like a big part of what goes missing in the "LLM house style".
Bluntly: getting AI to "improve" writing, as a fully generic instruction, is naturally going to pull that writing towards how the AI writes by default. Because of course the AI's model of "writing quality" considers that style to be "the best"; that's why it uses it. (Even "consider" feels like anthropomorphizing too much; I feel like I'm hitting the limits of English expressiveness here.)
Etc.
Maybe it sucks. Maybe it doesn't.
But, I notice a curious pretentiousness when it comes to some people's assumptions about their ability to identify LLM prose. Obviously, the generic first-pass 'chat' crap is recognizable; the kind of garbage that is filling up blog-posts on the internet.
But, one shouldn't underestimate the power of this technology when it comes to language. Hell, the 'coding' skills were just a pleasant side-effect of the language training, if you recall. These things have been trained on millions of works of prose of all styles: its their heart and soul. If you think the superficial monotonous style is all there is, you're mistaken. Most of the obnoxious LLM-style stuff is an artifact of the conversational training with Kenyans and the like in the early days. But, you can easily break through that with better prompts (or fine-tuning it yourself.)
That said, one shouldn't conflate the creation of the content and structure and substance of a work of prose with the manner in which it is written. You're not going to get an LLM to come up with a decent plot... yet. But, as far as fleshing out the framework of a story in a synthetic 'voice' that sounds human? Definitely doable.
Then the model will look for clusters that don't fit what the model consider's to be Hemingway/Colliers/Post-War and suggest in that fashion.
"edit this" -> blah
"imagine Tom Wolfe took a bunch of cocaine and was getting paid by the word to publish this after his first night with Aline Bernstein" -> probably less blah
the words TFA is looking for is mode collapse https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/t9svvNPNmFf5Qa3TA/mysteries-... and the author could herself learn to write more clearly.