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0 pointsCamperBob21mo ago0 comments

Besides being expensive to generate unless you already happen to have an electrolysis plant handy, hydrogen is awkward and hazardous to store. Once generated, it costs yet more energy to liquefy, and then it seeps right through many common metals, weakening them in the process. It's just not a good consumer-level energy source, and nobody could figure out why Toyota couldn't see that.

Interestingly, liquid hydrogen is nowhere near the most energy-dense way to store and transport it. I don't recall the exact numbers but absorption in a rare-earth metal matrix is said to be much better on a volumetric basis. [1] Still not exactly cheap or convenient, but it mitigates at least some of the drawbacks with liquid H2.

1: https://www.fuelcellstore.com/blog-section/what-hydrogen-sto...

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fuzzfactor1mo ago

The rare earth metal matrix can be a bit more optimized and I think progress is being made.

Why wait though ;)

With common metals hydrogen fits in between the matrix naturally to an extent.

Not like for efficient storage though, just the embrittlement, which gives researchers even more challenging things to be careful about.

smcin1mo ago

Remember that China briefly embargoed Japan for rare earth metals in 2010, and Toyota launched the Mirai in 2014. My theory was that it was developed as a national fallback for Japan in case that embargo continued or got worse. Think 1930s Volkswagen. Anyone can comment on that?

seanmcdirmid1mo ago

Japan went heavy into hydrogen for a couple of decades ago. The only reason we are even talking about hydrogen passenger vehicles now is because Japan thought it was the future, they made a mistake.

smcin1mo ago

I'm pointing out that the timeline of continuing funding it, to the point of a major model design and launch, and nationwide network of hydrogen stations, might well be linked to China's emergent REE dominance and that Japan doesn't have those raw materials.

(In some future decade/century, people might conclude that car dependency on fossil fuels, after electric from renewable became viable, was a mistake.)

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0 pointsCamperBob21mo ago0 comments

1: https://www.fuelcellstore.com/blog-section/what-hydrogen-sto...

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fuzzfactor1mo ago

The rare earth metal matrix can be a bit more optimized and I think progress is being made.

Why wait though ;)

With common metals hydrogen fits in between the matrix naturally to an extent.

Not like for efficient storage though, just the embrittlement, which gives researchers even more challenging things to be careful about.

smcin1mo ago

seanmcdirmid1mo ago

Japan went heavy into hydrogen for a couple of decades ago. The only reason we are even talking about hydrogen passenger vehicles now is because Japan thought it was the future, they made a mistake.

smcin1mo ago

(In some future decade/century, people might conclude that car dependency on fossil fuels, after electric from renewable became viable, was a mistake.)

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