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0 pointsmcv7d ago0 comments

Europe's weakness is mostly in their heads. The US is the most powerful military in the world, but the second most powerful military is NATO without the US. If the rest of NATO pulls together and reorganises into an effective military that doesn't depend on the US, it would be a force to be reckoned with.

Europe could easily defeat Russia without outside help (look at how well Ukraine is doing with far less!), but we still fear Russia because that's what we're used to. That's what we were told to do and what we have embraced. We need to grow out of that and stand on our own feet again.

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red-iron-pine7d ago

> Europe could easily defeat Russia without outside help (look at how well Ukraine is doing with far less!)

Ukraine has received unbelieviable levels of aid from NATO, esp. the US.

10000+ Javelin missiles, WW3 levels of cluster munitions that were slated to be decommissioned in the US, multiple factories in the EU making shells that go straight to the AFU (e.g. Bulgarian 152mm), etc.

there is no way they'd have made it 6+ months let alone 4 years without the US' heavy backing.

mcvOP7d ago

Much of their support has also come from the EU, and the EU has a lot more than that. The EU has more fighters and ships, more tanks, more soldiers. It is true that the EU didn't and still doesn't have deep ammo reserves, though. But it has far more capacity to ramp up production of these than Russia has; the Russian economy is about the size of that of the Benelux.

jacquesm7d ago

> It is true that the EU didn't and still doesn't have deep ammo reserves, though

Indeed it is true. But it is also changing, the stockpiles are growing.

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FpUser7d ago

>"but the second most powerful military is NATO without the US"

I am curious how much of NATO's hardware originate from the / depends on the US and and what will suddenly stop working if the US decides to break military alliance.

Starman_Jones7d ago

Short answer is: a LOT, but that's a two way street. BAE, for example, builds America's tanks (or at least their armored infantry fighting vehicles).

closewith7d ago

BAE Systems Inc, a US-based subsidiary that operates entirely in the US and whose leadership operates under an SAA which means they report to the US Government and the parent in the UK.

mcvOP6d ago

It's not like they will suddenly stop working completely, but some do depend on US data, which could be cut off. No idea if they have a fall back solution for that, but I'm sure they're working on that.

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