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0 pointslapcat1mo ago0 comments

> More generally, Luria completely ignores a key psychological dynamic that's in play as he tries to quiz these villagers: they're going to be suspicious of why he's even doing all this in the first place. What is he up to? And of course he was up to something: he was a agent of a horribly oppressive government that was trying to totally change the villagers' lives.

This doesn't explain the difference between the collective farm workers, who were actually forced by the government to change their lives, and the villagers who were not forced to change their lives. Why wouldn't the farm workers be even more suspicious, having already been victimized?

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pdonis1mo ago

> the villagers who were not forced to change their lives

They were--they just hadn't been yet when Luria ran his experiments.

> Why wouldn't the farm workers be even more suspicious, having already been victimized?

They might have been, but they also knew from experience that "do whatever this party apparatchik asks you to do, no matter how pointless it seems" was a better strategy for staying alive.

Note that I am not arguing that the cognitive differences Luria observed were not real.

lapcatOP1mo ago

> They might have been, but they also knew from experience that "do whatever this party apparatchik asks you to do, no matter how pointless it seems" was a better strategy for staying alive.

Why didn't the villagers come to the same conclusion, especially since you're suggesting that the villagers were fearful of this person?

> Note that I am not arguing that the cognitive differences Luria observed were not real.

But that's the crucial question!

saghm1mo ago

There's a difference between "I think this person might be up to something, but I don't know what" and " I know exactly what they're up to and it's in my best interest to avoid becoming an obstacle". Not all fear is the same.

pdonis1mo ago

> Why didn't the villagers come to the same conclusion

Because they hadn't had the same experience--yet.

> you're suggesting that the villagers were fearful of this person

Not fearful, suspicious.

> that's the crucial question!

You don't think it's possible for both things to be true? That literacy caused significant cognitive changes, and that the psychological dynamic I described was in play? I don't see how those two things are mutually exclusive.

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pdonis1mo ago

> the villagers who were not forced to change their lives

They were--they just hadn't been yet when Luria ran his experiments.

> Why wouldn't the farm workers be even more suspicious, having already been victimized?

They might have been, but they also knew from experience that "do whatever this party apparatchik asks you to do, no matter how pointless it seems" was a better strategy for staying alive.

Note that I am not arguing that the cognitive differences Luria observed were not real.

lapcatOP1mo ago

> They might have been, but they also knew from experience that "do whatever this party apparatchik asks you to do, no matter how pointless it seems" was a better strategy for staying alive.

Why didn't the villagers come to the same conclusion, especially since you're suggesting that the villagers were fearful of this person?

> Note that I am not arguing that the cognitive differences Luria observed were not real.

But that's the crucial question!

saghm1mo ago

pdonis1mo ago

> Why didn't the villagers come to the same conclusion

Because they hadn't had the same experience--yet.

> you're suggesting that the villagers were fearful of this person

Not fearful, suspicious.

> that's the crucial question!

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