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0 pointsdist-epoch21d ago0 comments

Yes, which is why I use paid-for OSes and browsers, instead of free ones like Linux or Firefox. I don't want to be the product.

0 comments

pipe2devnull21d ago

I think with Windows you probably are the customer and the product

vanderZwan21d ago

Cory Doctorow had an essay about that years ago, except he didn't artificially limit it to Windows:

"Even if you're paying for the product, you're still the product: Incentives matter, but impunity matters more."

https://pluralistic.net/2022/11/14/luxury-surveillance/#liar...

coldtea20d ago

With Linux you can control up to the detail any auto-update, and any update in general, all the way to being able to inspect the code.

dbgobrrr20d ago

With GNU/Linux, yes. With Android/Linux, not so much. [1]

(I used to dislike this "GNU/Linux" term, it seemed unimportant - Android showed me why the GNU part of it is)

[1] https://keepandroidopen.org/

coldtea20d ago

I don't think anybody implied or thought of Android in this subthread, just because it nominally runs the Linux kernel. I for sure understood it as just "Linux = whole OS-level distros of the laptop/PC bound type" not "anything with a Linux kernel even if it's a proprietary mobile phone OS".

nathanmills20d ago

Only if you have the closed-source Google Play Services... Just like desktop, there are plenty of Android distros like LineageOS

z3t420d ago

Why is nobody building a paid for browser with built in search engine and LLM assistant? Should probably make it open source for transparency. And before anyone says you would build/compile it yourself if it was open source, those ppl are already running their self compiled tools and are not the target market.

liminis20d ago

Isn't that essentially Dia? (Pro is 20USD/month.) https://www.diabrowser.com/

(I miss Arc, such a shame it only gets security/chromium updates now ...)

And I think Codex's desktop client has a built-in browser now? At least I've seen someone using something like that. Nevermind Atlas is a thing now too. https://openai.com/index/introducing-chatgpt-atlas/

(Tell me if I'm misunderstanding you?)

FoxBJK20d ago

Who would pay for it when literally every other option has been free for a lifetime?

Narishma20d ago

You are still the product with commercial OSes. Paying doesn't stop them from shoving ads and telemetry wherever they can.

pjc5020d ago

Man, this is a dumb take even by HN standards.

dist-epochOP20d ago

No, the dumb take is believing that if you pay for something you are not the product anyway.

liminis20d ago

I definitely feel less a product on macOS than anything Google-orientated. I don't know where Windows fits into that exactly, given "paying for Windows" is not really how it's even seen, given major updates were 'free' (with extra ads).

coldtea20d ago

He meant the face-value of your comment is dumb.

But I think it as sarcasm is also wrong.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

pipe2devnull21d ago

I think with Windows you probably are the customer and the product

vanderZwan21d ago

Cory Doctorow had an essay about that years ago, except he didn't artificially limit it to Windows:

"Even if you're paying for the product, you're still the product: Incentives matter, but impunity matters more."

https://pluralistic.net/2022/11/14/luxury-surveillance/#liar...

coldtea20d ago

With Linux you can control up to the detail any auto-update, and any update in general, all the way to being able to inspect the code.

dbgobrrr20d ago

With GNU/Linux, yes. With Android/Linux, not so much. [1]

(I used to dislike this "GNU/Linux" term, it seemed unimportant - Android showed me why the GNU part of it is)

[1] https://keepandroidopen.org/

coldtea20d ago

nathanmills20d ago

Only if you have the closed-source Google Play Services... Just like desktop, there are plenty of Android distros like LineageOS

z3t420d ago

liminis20d ago

Isn't that essentially Dia? (Pro is 20USD/month.) https://www.diabrowser.com/

(I miss Arc, such a shame it only gets security/chromium updates now ...)

(Tell me if I'm misunderstanding you?)

FoxBJK20d ago

Who would pay for it when literally every other option has been free for a lifetime?

Narishma20d ago

You are still the product with commercial OSes. Paying doesn't stop them from shoving ads and telemetry wherever they can.

pjc5020d ago

Man, this is a dumb take even by HN standards.

dist-epochOP20d ago

No, the dumb take is believing that if you pay for something you are not the product anyway.

liminis20d ago

coldtea20d ago

He meant the face-value of your comment is dumb.

But I think it as sarcasm is also wrong.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse