That upset me, but now I'm pissed. Now I don't even care about their stupid printers. Now I'd like to waste Bambu Lab's time and cause problems for them.
And also, while this X1C should be going strong for years, my eyes are on Prusa should I want another printer any time soon for any reason. Less polished or not, they seem like they're still better for consumers even though they are apparently less open than they used to be. But I'm of course interested in hearing what people recommend, too. (I got an X1C because I knew it would be simple, but I don't particularly mind getting my hands dirty or anything. I did build an Ender 3 kit before that.)
Mutli-color though is where Bambu has a good leg up.
(Diluted) Vision Miner Nano Polymer Adhesive and a good bed leveling probe has done a lot to make my printer set and forget, no matter which print sheets I use.
I'm excited for INDX but going to wait a year or so.
https://wiki.bambulab.com/en/knowledge-sharing/enable-develo...
It's a shame they're going in such an anti-consumer direction, both with their gaslighting customer support and the lawfare against Orca.
It has been absolutely great and low-effort. I haven't needed it yet, but their printers seem to be focused on easy maintenance by their owners.
This move does not surprise me at all, and I'm genuinely happy that Louis is willing to shell out money to help those that can't defend themselves.
I'm happy that Bambu finally made Prusa care, but I will not cheer them even if they consistently innovate. It's just sad.
I'm really getting too old dealing with morons who didn't learn anything after the same patterns repeating for decades now.
I support him even though people can pick him apart.
I don’t understand why an article from Tom’s Hardware about an opinion of Louis Rossman who tells a 3D printer maker to go fuck themselves is currently the most upvoted article on HN.
I can hardly believe headlines like these are met with anything but cheers. It’s literally the hacker spirit in the classical sense: a big company is trying to legally threaten a project offline, and people like Louis are helping prevent that.
You could at least throw in a “it’s cool that he’s pledging money” before insulting his channel. And if his channel wasn’t as political as it is, it’s doubtful he could rally the kind of support we’re seeing here.
I much prefer channels that don’t use this way of gaining views, but they, because of that, don’t gain nearly as many views.
I have no skin in this game, but it’s pretty clear what the majority of viewers want.
He gets a bunch of things wrong since it's mostly reactionary content but he is willing to correct himself when he gets things wrong.
He does a lot to prevent companies from screwing over customers and that in of itself is good enough that in willing to overlook his flaws
I don't think an opinion becomes more based in reality by sticking the words "As a matter of fact" in front of them.
Although I have to say, I think Louis was making better videos when he was in New York. I understand the financial situation where New York really abuses people, but I am just looking at the videos. I can't say whether that decision was what changed, but I noticed that the content changed a lot once he relocated outside of New York.
However had, I disagree with the "drama" comment. I would call it more that the movement became more important, which is fine, in my opinion. Right to repair isn't that different from many other movements where we people try to get more rights back again. See the right to videotape public officials in performing their public jobs and so on. It is all connected.
I have never had a problem with the software, the outrage is totally manufactured to have something to complain about. Louis was fun to listen to for a while, but his schtick is so tired now.
Saying anything less than glowingly positive about Rossmann is dangerous due to his fan base, but I think this mentality of pre-forgiving his misinformation is not healthy.
Being passionate and putting on a vulnerable schtick shouldn’t excuse someone from misleading their large audience.
Rossman is a drama YouTuber, like many others. This is an entire YouTube genre. Most of them have the same schtick where they appear to be the most passionate, vulnerable, on-your-side narrator of a story. His schtick is common in the drama YouTuber genre.
You shouldn’t develop such a parasocial relationship with a person that you reflexively defend every topic they engage in. Discuss the topics each on their own factual merits and be prepared to look for second sources. Don’t align yourself with someone because they are passionate and appear “vulnerable”. At the end of the day, you need to remember that putting on this display is how he makes his money. It’s a show.
I dont see how he is “like many others”. A lot of YouTubers cover controversy for controversy sake, or just as material for another sponsored video. He does not do sponsored content, and usually seems to push for something concrete around consumer rights. So I think the comparison to other drama Youtubers is unfair.
In my view, the drama is more a way to draw attention to his activism. He does tend to put his money and time where his mouth is.
But perhaps my view is biased, since I only see the videos the YouTube algorithm suggests to me, and those may be the ones that are more focused on consumer rights than drama. Still, that has consistently been my impression.
Even amongst YouTubers, you can favor facts over emotions (without discarding emotion!) and be a more effective advocate who arms others with both motivation and useful, effective knowledge.[1]
EDIT: I’m not going to sit through another angry Louis Rossmann video, but from what I can see someone tried to make a branch of OrcaSlicer that interacted directly with Bambu’s private cloud APIs to impersonate Bambu Studio. I don’t agree with the legal threats but this case is about connecting to their non-public cloud APIs, not connecting to the printer directly.
It remains astonishing to me that this is controversial. Not everyone has the knowhow to block internet access to their printer, so having a toggle in firmware is terrific. I've verified after turning it on that it never phones home. Couldn't be happier.
Try https://youtu.be/0tdZ5Z7nRDY?si=vjnJ90p6ba_Xik9B for a less emotive take on this specific case, and the closely related matter of Bambu's attempt to circumvent some of AGPL's protections.
Getting cloud mode means using Bambu Studio. Getting Bambu Studio means one more notch in slowly getting locked into the walled Bambu garden.
I’m completely against bullying and attempts to lock out open source software from using 3d printers directly; if they locked out OrcaSlicer from direct control I’d have a big problem with that.
But trying to interact directly with Bambu’s private infrastructure/APis seems reasonable for Bambu to block. I think a cease and desist might backfire on Bambu but i don’t think it’s unreadable. (Didn’t watch the video. Just getting context from parent comment. )
Even if they have taken away other routes that used to exist so that this is the only way?
I've also been very happy with my A1 (bought ~18 months go), and have since bought a U1 (which has networking problems of its own, but is otherwise a great upgrade) alongside it. Unless Bambu changes its tack significantly I'll not be buying another of their machines or more of their materials¹.
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[1] well, maybe the light grey PLA as I've not yet found anything similar enough easily available in the UK, and it is perfect for prints that I want to look neutral or for some scifi ships & similar…
I'll chip in to this developer's legal defense fund because I want to be able to do whatever I want with my printer, and "I can't do what I want with my printer" is a bigger problem for me right now than "the developer made a TCP connection on my behalf to a server he didn't own".
The motive appears to be to get tax credits as opposed to becoming a full-on patent troll, though with how quickly China is speedrunning their version of capitalism I would not be surprised if it turns into patent trolling.
Their behaviour overall is really giving me mixed feelings, because the Bambu A1 I have is an absolutely amazing machine for the price, and I've been casually in this since the Printrbot days.
That's not Bambu being open, that's them doing the absolute minimum to allow people to say "you can use Bambu printers fully offline" in comment sections.
If so then you could access it over a reverse proxy like Tailscale.
Its trivially easy to set one up these days.
Instead of a Bambu, I got a Flashforge Adventurer 5M. It is incredibly cheap (cheap enough that I am more than happy to replace it after two years if it stops working), and is pretty reliable (compared to the Prusa MK3 and MK3S I had), and most of all, the self-calibration works well enough that I don't spend any time debugging prints that fail at the first layer anymore; I just re-run calibration and it's fine, and if it's not fine, I clean the plate and it works.
It also comes with a terrible slicer (dervied from Slic3r I believe) with annoying "log into the cloud every time you start the app", but I moved to OrcaSlicer. I had to give up a few nice features but it hasn't truly impacted my workflow. And it does receive firmware updates (it's connected via wifi to my home network). My hope- just a hope- is that they don't do anything truly stupid with future firmware updates or end up getting in a hissy fit with prominent youtubers.
But realistically, because if they control how you use your machine, they can start skimming profit off of those digital services every time you print something. That's only works if they have control over how you use the machine in your house.
To outward appearances, they seem to be trying to recreate the printer ink/razor blade business model on 3d printers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razor-and-blades_model#Printer...
To reiterate the GP's question: why would I want to do that? In practice whenever I want to monitor anything from anywhere, I just VNC or RDP to my PC.
If it's just about ease-of-use, as the other replies suggest, and not actually gating the functionality of the hardware, I'm having trouble understanding the outrage. It sounds as if they are trying to be the Apple of 3D printing, while also still supporting "sideloading." If the hardware itself isn't locked down, why does anyone care what they do with their cloud service?
OTOH, if the hardware is locked down, then that's what people should be complaining about, not an optional cloud service.
Bambu Labs however, has chosen to market their printers with an app that provides a "one-stop shop" for all things 3D-printer. You can browse their version of Thingiverse (or Printables or Cults 3D) and send jobs directly to your printer. You can also access your printer remotely (read outside your home network without tunnelling/port-forwarding/VPNs) to monitor prints, get notified when a print is done, get notified you've run out of filament, watch the printer work if it's equipped with a camera, etc. etc.
Bambu has been attempting to remove features that enable easy local (not-internet-connected) use cases and force everyone to use the cloud, etc. Or at least make it as painful as possible to skip the cloud.
Relevant context: X1C owner who did not update the firmware that forced bambu's "secure printing" workflow on users that previously used their local network "plugin".
I stopped using Handy, blocked the printer's access to the internet, and ultimately, did not miss a thing. The printer continued to work fine with my slicer of choice (softfever's fork of Bambu Lab studio's fork of Prusa Slicer's fork of slic3r, now known as OrcaSlicer).
Like most things these days, they make a decent printer, but are part of tech's steadfast march to control everything. The twist is that they're in a space defined very much by breaking control.
Not defending Bambu. The UX is quite straightforward and easy, however.
So it's a nice to have thing, but it could have very easily been optional. Instead they made it so that every print, even ones sent from Bambu Studio, has to go through their servers(unless you enable Lan mode)
I’m not sure why 3D printed parts matter. Thats not why Bambu is cheaper.
The visual design you can argue. Despite being on the Prusa side I do like the more consumer-y visual aesthetic of Bambu machines better.
So make it possible to connect directly to printer over LAN? Prusa supports that, you can use the printer without ever connecting it to internet.
https://www.prusa3d.com/product/indx-conversion-kit-8-toolhe...
The main thing keeping me from making the multi-material jump is the waste. I have a couple Vorons and would love to be able to print with different materials at the same time, but the waste with the current solutions is so egregious.
The Core line of printers seems promising and a big leap towards closing the gap towards Bambu's corexy printers but haven't used one yet and I've been out of the game a little. Bambu though is probably more of a high-end appliance type than Prusas more utilitarian feel.
I am not going to say they are perfect, but I think they have a good balance of ethics, openness, product quality, innovation, availability and price. By that I mean their are the best in none of them, but I don't think of anything better as a combination.
Buy a bambu; use Orcaslicer
Edit: didn't mean to say "held the industry back"; I would categorize my opinion more along the lines of "were happy to get fat on past offerings" or the like.
This may be a controversial take, but imo it would be Bambu to set the industry back by a decade if they "win" and lock up the market. That's clearly their strategy afaict.
Does anyone remember Bambu patenting existing open inventions as their own? I can't seem to find good links anymore (?!) but there's some details here https://www.mdpi.com/2411-5134/8/6/141
I'm gonna keep using mk4s.
"Not innovating myself" isn't the same as "holding other's innovations back".
Mind you, LAN mode didn't exist, we had to use SFT to send files to the printer locally.
I build a DIY LDO Voron Trident and it is slice and print.
Louis Rossmann isn't polite, but he cuts though the corporate speak.
I am not involved in this industry so I never heard of the company or the youtuber before reading this. I am tempted to buy one just to make some things (that I don't need but might be fun to make).
Particularly relevant for this discussion is this part of that page, showing the lineage of the various software involved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slicer_(3D_printing)#List_of_s...
I didn't want another hobby, fiddling with settings and materials, and generally going down the 3D printing rabbit hole. I just wanted to print stuff for my actual hobbies. And the A1 does this, with little fuss, for which I am forever grateful.
So much of this opinion sounds like a Bambu ad read from YouTube, as if they're the only ones making printers that just work now, like a Prusa can't crank out perfect first layers without breaking a sweat.
I've bought many, many other printers since then, and every time I've gotten something other than a Bambu Lab printer I've been disappointed, and ended up returning them or selling them.
Creality's K1 Plus was great, but regularly needed the extruder disassembled to get broken filament out.
Anycubic Kobra 3 Max regularly failed to keep prints on the bed. I bought 2 Elegoo Centauri Carbons. The first has been out of commission since the extruder went haywire, and I couldn't get replacement parts without going through some random support chat app, and the 2nd one's build plate delaminated the first weekend I had the printer.
The Snapmaker U1 I'm pretty happy with, but when I first got it, I learned you have to be very gentle with how you put the spools on, as it can pop an internal plastic panel off with interferes with the Y-axis.
Prusas are good, but price and availability are issues (I bought all the above new at my local Microcenter). I do have an older Prusa MK3 that I bought for an pellet extruder conversion, but for a printer with no online capabilities and a need to manually level it via paper, it cost more used than a new Bambu Lab P1S. I'm okay with putting your money where your ideology is, but imagine if the only alternative to an iPhone's walled garden was a $2000 Android.
As a Westerner, I value my freedom, so I will happy pay way over the [Chinese-imposed] odds to build a 3D printer of my own than suck on the teat of the CCP and buy a subsidised 3D printer that attacks our freedoms.
I would encourage other right-thinking people who value freedom, democracy and rule-of-law to do the same: build your own or -- at the very least -- support Western 3D printer vendors like Prusa who share our values and contribute back to the community.
This is HN. This isn't YouTube. Rossman is beneath this place.
(The ridiculous NYC to Austin thing is pretty representative. Complained incessantly about loony liberal New York, moved to Austin, now he complains about Texas. Sorry! Turns out there is no utopia for pathological contrarians.)
I was sad to watch Sabine Hossenfelder devolve from a level-headed critic of how research is done, into a loony crank who selects the contrarian angle on every issue. I'm sure the YouTube analytics inform her which topics perform better.
