What's Wrong with AI? (opens in new tab)

(kurtis.weblog.lol)

18 pointsArch48514d ago6 comments

6 comments

"In some instances, AI data centres are powered completely by renewable energy. Unfortunately, unless the data centre builds new renewable energy sources to supply 100% of its power, this still results in an increase in fossil fuel usage. Why? Because if the data centre is using pre-existing sources for renewable energy, it is taking that energy away from other consumers that need it. To pick up the slack, we must generate more energy, and most of that generation is done using coal or natural gas."

-- strangely I had never actually thought about this

hunterpayne14d ago

There is a reason for that. Its not especially true. In fact, the more renewables you deploy, the more natural gas you use. And that's before you consider that most renewables are sited so poorly that it likely doesn't reduce CO2 emissions at all. This guy also seems to think that water is somehow destroyed when its used for cooling. This also isn't true. I really wish the author hadn't started with these claims that he clearly doesn't understand. There are good points much farther down, but he buried the lead under 20 feet of misunderstandings.

kamranjon14d ago

"the more renewables you deploy, the more natural gas you use." -- source?

"most renewables are sited so poorly that it likely doesn't reduce CO2 emissions at all" -- source?

jsfitzsimmons14d ago

Yes, AI datacenters do actually use evaporative cooling. The water isn't destroyed obviously but it is made unavailable for other purposes (like keeping people, animals, and plants alive) and depletes water tables that can't be easily replenished

raincole14d ago

Because it's a very strange way to view the economics. Yes, AI uses energy. But using energy itself isn't an inherently bad thing. It'll also incentive people to invest more in renewable energy too.

> Additionally, many residents who live near AI data centres are seeing increased electricity bills due to the amount of electricity those data centres use.5 That's right, trillion dollar companies are using you to subsidize their power bill!

I'm glad the author put this paragraph early into this article though. Saved me a few minutes reading the rest.

pixl9714d ago

Eh, somewhat reductive thinking. Demand for renewables causes an increase in the build out of new renewables. Yea, it's not instant, but that's how markets work. Coal/fuel is expensive, so this drives demand for more wind solar, especially during high demand times that bring the highest power prices.

The problem with this essay is thinking power demand is bad. It is not when we can deploy massive amounts of renewables. Not only for AI, but for other industrial workloads that user power.

If the rest of the dipshits around here hadn't elected the dumbest mother fuckers on earth, we'd be pushing out subsidies to build out renewables at 10x the rate we are now. But hey, coal jobs matter.

troupo14d ago

> Eh, somewhat reductive thinking. Demand for renewables causes an increase in the build out of new renewables. Yea, it's not instant, but that's how markets work.

Funny how this line of thinking is indistinguishable from crypto.

> It is not when we can deploy massive amounts of renewables. Not only for AI, but for other industrial workloads that user power.

Funny how this line of thinking is indistinguishable from crypto. "Yes, we build a lot o power which is immediately consumed by us, but see how this is good? See? SEE?!"

> we'd be pushing out subsidies to build out renewables at 10x the rate we are now.

And these would be gobbled up by crypto and AI data centers, right?

uejfiweun14d ago

I get that these data center companies are in a race right now and speed is the name of the game. But if they really want long-term acceptance for this technology, I think they will need to basically be fully self-sufficient with renewable energy, in a completely isolated power grid, so that we don't have to deal with the above issue.

mmilunic14d ago

Unlike a lot of anti-AI writing I have seen which can drift into the territory of reactionist rhetoric, this feels very grounded. As a student entering the job market, I personally am quite conflicted about my usage of AI, due to all the effects you have said. Especially when testing out more recent “agentic” coding tools where they do literally all the work, not only are there the moral qualms but they’re also not enjoyable to use.

However, in the tech bubble I live in to use these tools for as much as possible in order to “make it” in some sense and actually be employable. Like you said it is a game of chicken. Perhaps the best strategy (for me) is to campaign for institutional guardrails on usage while continuing to individually try to be competitive?

TimByte14d ago

AI is clearly useful, but usefulness doesn't automatically justify unlimited deployment, opaque training practices or turning every public service and workplace into an experiment

burlesona14d ago

I think the case is well-made, but it's not a game of chicken, it's an arms race.

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6 comments

kamranjon14d ago

-- strangely I had never actually thought about this

hunterpayne14d ago

kamranjon14d ago

"the more renewables you deploy, the more natural gas you use." -- source?

"most renewables are sited so poorly that it likely doesn't reduce CO2 emissions at all" -- source?

jsfitzsimmons14d ago

raincole14d ago

Because it's a very strange way to view the economics. Yes, AI uses energy. But using energy itself isn't an inherently bad thing. It'll also incentive people to invest more in renewable energy too.

I'm glad the author put this paragraph early into this article though. Saved me a few minutes reading the rest.

pixl9714d ago

The problem with this essay is thinking power demand is bad. It is not when we can deploy massive amounts of renewables. Not only for AI, but for other industrial workloads that user power.

troupo14d ago

> Eh, somewhat reductive thinking. Demand for renewables causes an increase in the build out of new renewables. Yea, it's not instant, but that's how markets work.

Funny how this line of thinking is indistinguishable from crypto.

> It is not when we can deploy massive amounts of renewables. Not only for AI, but for other industrial workloads that user power.

Funny how this line of thinking is indistinguishable from crypto. "Yes, we build a lot o power which is immediately consumed by us, but see how this is good? See? SEE?!"

> we'd be pushing out subsidies to build out renewables at 10x the rate we are now.

And these would be gobbled up by crypto and AI data centers, right?

uejfiweun14d ago

mmilunic14d ago

TimByte14d ago

AI is clearly useful, but usefulness doesn't automatically justify unlimited deployment, opaque training practices or turning every public service and workplace into an experiment

burlesona14d ago

I think the case is well-made, but it's not a game of chicken, it's an arms race.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse