I'm starting to become more and more bored with work. I started to look around for other opportunities, but I feel it's hard to do that while working full time. Also, my problem does not seem to be with that particular job, it's with the whole corporate world. Being forced to sit at a desk the whole day. I'm still motivated to work on my own projects after work and on the weekends. I still like programming. I just don't like coding stuff for other people.
Long story short, I'm preparing to take a time out. Maybe one year, maybe two, maybe only six months. My savings could probably sustain my current lifestyle for 5-10 years, if not more. My plan would be to crank out mobile apps, maybe one every two months, see if any of them can make some money. If it doesn't work, I could use them as a reference to get a mobile dev job, hopefully at a company with a product I can be passionate about.
Am I crazy to give up a six figure salary just because I don't feel like being employed anymore? I'm in my mid-late thirties, will I even find a new job with a gap in my resume like this? Any first hand experiences? I'm single, no kids.
After one particularly brutal day that didn't see me home until well after midnight, I did some serious soul-searching. I gave my (pretty generous) notice the next day.
I did the math and figured out my vacation payout + vacation time I had lost over the years due to the yearly cutoff was about three months, so I planned to take a three month vacation. Sleep all day, learn a programming language, drive to interesting places, read books, play video games, whatever sounded interesting that particular day. Recharge the ol' batteries. And that's exactly what I did.
After my three months of R&R were up, it was time to start looking for a job. I applied for interesting-sounding jobs that I thought I was qualified for. Silence. I contacted some friends and asked about opportunities, then sent CVs to the few that said, "Yes, we have positions you should apply for!" More silence. I continue(d) to apply for interesting jobs, resisting the urge to just scattershot resumes at everything I'm qualified for. (I think that's tacky, and I'm not that desperate yet. Plus, I don't want another job I'll hate and/or burn out on.)
My three months turned into six months...and then nine months...and now stands at 11 months. I haven't been able to get a single interview -- phone, e-mail, in-person, or otherwise. My savings and expenses are such that I'm okay for another two years or so, but I will need an income of some sort eventually.
Maybe my skill set is crap. Maybe my CV is crap. Maybe it's my employment history gap. Maybe it's karmic retribution. I can't be certain, but my money's on the gap.
tl;dr: Your mileage may vary, but I'm pretty sure I Darwin'd my career by taking time off without doing anything that I could put on a CV to explain the gap in my employment history.
It may be the combination of 10+ years at one company, plus a gap. It could be something else. Have you asked those friends for an update what happened after you sent your CV?
In my (limited) experience, even though people say there's a shortage of qualified software engineers and it's a great market for them now, it's always hard to find a good job. Key word being "good". Unless you're a "rock star" that has written a book and is being hired to speak at tech conferences. Companies are still being picky, even if they can't afford to be.
Trust me, your problem is not a three month or 11 month hole in your cv. I am guessing its the wrong marketing. A cv is not a way to find a job, it's a piece of paper used to fiddle with during an interview
Try (and this is really wild guesses based on your posts)
- there are hundreds of (tenured) academics who would love to setup "institutes" or other vehicles for their favoured area
- you have years if academic, IT experience so you talk the safe language and also know arse from elbow.
- co-run / co-start these institutes - one conference, with the professors network attending, you supply IT and find sponsors. I am guessing they will eat your hand off.
Maybe I am way off base, but honestly it does sound like you are looking for another replacement job - if there is one thing I have learnt here, anyone on HN does not have the "right attitude" for employment
You bring years of experience at whatever you decide to put your mind to. Show it.
Take time off, and figure out what you want to do. Maybe it'll be freelancing/indie development. Maybe in 6 months you'll want to come back to the tech world. Or maybe you'll just say "fuck it" and go teach high school mathematics or help out with IT infrastructure in third world countries or whatever.
The point is: you only live once, do it.
Once upon a time it used to be a way of saying that you only have finite amount of time on earth and you should make the best of it. Somewhat similar to "Carpe Diem" and "Momento Mori".
The fact that a bunch of kids that use it as reasoning to smoke alot of dope and do stupid shit doesn't change the original meaning in the eyes of many folk.
You are not crazy to give it up. I can't speak from experience; I am in my early 30's and gave up a lower rate about six years ago to good result, but that's just anecdotal. It seems to me you have a very strong position: You have serious industry experience and, from your description, very strong financial responsibility. It's almost irritating that this should be impressive, but it is: You are a whale among greedy remoras. ;)
It is certainly obvious to you that this is a risk. Being single and without dependents does help, but that also brings to mind the question of priorities. You're in a position, now, where you earn enough to wrap up your retirement reasonably early, if this pace keeps up. If that is what you want, then you might consider that starting a family -- if that's a priority for you -- could actually make your current income sources very, very valuable in a meaningful sense.
If your primary goal is work satisfaction... then yes, I would say this is an excellent opportunity to step out of your current environment (calling it a rut or anything else would paint a biased picture, I think) and potentially do something more rewarding, in terms of personal fulfillment. I would not go into such a venture with the expectation of more lucrative results, though. You seem to be in a good position. There are certainly many startups that succeed, and that won't change. But the reality will always be that more fail.
Be careful. You are in a good position, and you seem to know it. My suggestion would be to try and decide what it is you would be happiest doing, or at least deciding on things you want to accomplish. If you can manage that, then you will at least have something interesting to work towards. If not, then you may need more time before you can do something new and expect it to end well or at least satisfy you.
I used the retirement calculator my brokerage firm has on their website. According to their Monte Carlo simulation, I have about 10 years to financial independence (90% chance that my money doesn't run out before I die), income, savings rate and expenses remaining at the same level. That happens to be around $1 million in savings in today's dollars. It's tempting on the one hand, but on the other hand: 10 damn years!! I don't know if I can do it.
It's weird, I'm hoping that the decision is somehow made for me. My company being acquired or forced to downsize, offering severance packages... But alas, it doesn't seem to be in the cards.
There's nothing wrong with coasting when you know you're moving in a good direction, which it seems clear you are. In your situation, you have the chance to sit back, observe, and carefully consider the environment (in addition to consulting whatever oracles you consider the most wise) and then decide when or whether you should strike out with any given idea.
Unless you're throwing yourself on the mercy of an incubator on the strength of your resume, which in my opinion is a laughable gamble for kids who don't know better, you will want to think long and hard on what you want to do and how you want to do it. Once you can answer those questions for yourself (as you are the only one to whom you answer, and you'll never find a more forgiving situation), you'll have your direction.
Once you take it... well, that's another story. ;)
You could probably get three to six months off pretty easily. If just asking wouldn't work, you could hint a relative is on their last legs and make a firmer request? A few months would probably clarify the issue in a way we can't for you.
Consider looking for a new job. Partly to judge the market, and the market's take on you, and partly to actually look for something much better. You could negotiate a six-month late start and have a vacation while you decided if the job really was for you.
Maybe you could already afford to retire - in Costa-Rica or Thailand for random example - and could buy and rent property there as a fallback nest egg in case this really was your retirement, but otherwise not costing so much as to hurt your savings assuming you'll want to try to retire here.
And lastly, what's the chance that retirement savings is going to be here when you want to retire? Are you paying attention to where it is enough to avoid the next bubble? Land would still be valuable to live on, rent, while currency-denominated assets could easily hyper-inflate. Some assets can be seized, or lost in war, others - or remotely stored ones - perhaps less.
All that said, do it! Don't make any commitments, just start by taking vacation, ask for leave when that's out, and quit when that's done if you still want to stay away.
You're successful,
> I'm single, no kids.
and you don't have obligations.
Considering these, I'd quite safely say this is a game you are not likely to lose. While it's a decision you need to make by yourself, your worst case scenario is better than lives of most people in the field. Plus, taking a year or two to work on startups as far as I can see is quite normal and even seen in a positive light in many places.
As for the "gap", this is simple. Start a business. If you're going to be making and selling mobile apps, you'll want a basic corporate entity behind you anyways. Now, instead of being "unemployed guy building apps" you're "Founder of Mobile App Development Consultancy" or something along those lines.
Given what you stated about not liking the corporate world, that's completely understandable. I certainly prefer smaller companies, even startup, bootstrapping level ones. J2EE and .NET aren't strongly used outside of the big enterprise-y corporate world. Given your experience with Java, I'd say you might find Clojure to be a great move and still be able to leverage your Java past.
Go for it! Get yourself an LLC or similar and build some apps. If you have 5+ years of financial runway, you should certainly be able to find something self-sustaining in that time. :)
Jump and don't look back!
I could use my C# skills to port the app to WP7/8, and I might even buy my first Apple computer and learn Objective C. Exciting prospects!
Savings that lasts 5-10 years in the states would lasts you at least 20-30 years here. Most people here speaks English fluently, and the startups/hackers culture here are vibrant and growing.
My good friend quit his cozy programming job in Canada and spent a year travelling and hacking in Malaysia + Singapore. He left with more money than when he started (took very very few consulting jobs in between). Oh, and tons of great (food) memories: http://malaysianfoodporn.com/
Malaysia is probably your best bet for somewhere in between if you are looking for a balance between the developed world and stretching your savings. KL is a pretty laid back place to be with awesome food! And with AirAsia being based in Malaysia, you could pretty much travel anywhere in Asia for cheaps. And if you ever decide you are running out of money or are bored, there are a multitude of companies/startups you can start consulting for!
Btw, bearwithclaws, how did your friend end up with more money than when he started? I'm curious.
I moved to Singapore from Britain last year.
But after a year I stopped and joined a startup in the mobile industry. I coudn't be more pleased.
To you: - Do it! - The gap doesnt matter, if you can explain properly - Dont start working fulltime alone, either have a companion, work somewhere were similar people do the same thing, or have a second job on the side. This is mostly for social reasons. - If you want to work in the startup world, try to do something apart from j2ee. But I see you want to do mobile dev, good choice!
You should think twice about what your motivaions are, do you want to become an entrepeneur? Or you just want to be happy with your job? Dont make the wrong choices for the wrong reasons.
This is a great question. I think my main goal would be autonomy. Being able to go hiking in the morning and then work through the night. I never understood why we're forced to spend the days pent up in office buildings.
The other thing: Since I was a kid with a Commodore 64, I've been wanting to develop games. Just small, quirky, but fun and captivating games. This might be the chance to go after that childhood dream, as silly as it may sound.
But, otherwise, this is absolutely good for your resume, I think. Assuming there's no huge change in the market, you should be as employable if not more. Maybe try to stay involved in the .NET/J2EE developer community once a month or so, keep in touch with former coworkers, etc. in case you decide to go back to that instead of mobile, though.
All in all, I think the stories that you guys have put here is such a good inspiration for me to get back to start up world, enjoying every day of coding and hacking. Hopefully, one day my product will make to the top of hackernews.
Here is the app that I released about a week ago (shameless plug): https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dish./id648176152?ls=1&m...
- I have 23 days of PTO per year, which is generous for the US. I did several two week trips the past years, mostly to Asia. My job is fairly low stress, I work less than 40 hours per week. But still, as soon as I set a foot into the office, it feels like all life energy gets sapped out of me. Maybe it's the fluorescent lighting? The crappy HVAC that oscillates between freezing and muggy? The open office plan we moved to last year? The constant sitting? As soon as I'm on my bike on the way home, I feel better.
- Worst case, if I do it: I get lazy and don't do anything during my time off, and won't have anything to show for at the end. But that's entirely in my control, and I won't have anyone to blame but myself.
- I read many blogs and comments about this. A recurring theme is people saying "I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to bring myself to go back to work after taking such a long time off." While I can see the point, aren't they implicitly admitting that there is something wrong with their current situation?
Try to get a standing desk. It worked wonders for me.
I'm trying to work standing up for a bit. It does help, but of course is far from ergonomic at a regular desk. It probably also looks ridiculous, me doing a semi-split to get low enough to reach the keyboard and mouse.
If anyone has a suggestion about equally beautiful places in the US that are cheaper, please share! Virginia Beach? Fort Lauderdale?
I've been building something in my spare time and between freelance gigs. It's at a good working prototype stage. I just want to spend a solid month polishing, plugging in minimally required data, release it and see what happens from there.
At the same time, I've just been offered a new contract which will put my project on the slow track for a good half year but it's money coming in.
Being able to focus on something that I'm interested in is amazing. My creativity flows and I see results occur at a pace that keeps motivated even more.
Yet, I don't know what decision to make - Financially sound status quo or happy pipe-dream.
but... I'm reading everyone's comments with great interest.
I think it might help to change the way you look at this. It is not only a problem but also a big chance to find something that fuldills you again. I went to the same situation but with lot less savings. It was damn hard and still isn't all sunshine, but i do not regret leaving my boring well paying job at MS for a second. Problems will occur but they are also solved on the way.
Read Books on the topic, make a solid plan, and then learn to trust in yourself and let go. Might sound oversimplified but sometimes you have to make a change in order to get what you really want in the end. You're not alone in this. There were thousands that did the move. Best of luck.
If anything finding people who have built products themselves and put them out there is great to see and are hugely valuable to an enlightened organization. Whenever I interview people this is always a fun part of the conversation. I find that those people are very likely to be tuned to building great products and are the kind of people I want to work with.
(FWIW I skipped out on traditional job offers after getting my masters to begin a startup)
In general, it sounds like you've taken a very safe / corporate path with your career. Pays well, but it's boring. That might be the problem. I did a year in a big company and haven't worked any sizeable since. I know guys who earn six figures a year working at banks, but the crap they have to put up with -- what's the point?
What I do want to say -- and I'm really unsure that I should be saying it at all (since I'm not your dad, but then again, this is the internet)
Maybe you should start at least considering settling down somewhere? I don't mean settle down somewhere and enter a company you hate for the rest of your life just for job security, but more like pick a place (or search for) a place you want to be in for a long time
With IT/software skills like yours, I doubt there are many people who won't see your value at a technical company, and that will enable you to get a job in most places, but being transient forever (even if you're writing awesome software) doesn't seem like a wholesome plan
I'm definitely assuming too much, and I don't know anything (outside of this post) about you or your goals, but just figured I should at least make the point
Also, your Honolulu-as-a-place-to-live idea sounds amazing
Maybe some places that recently had tech booms might be good idea? Though I don't know where you'll find better general weather than California -- Seattle? Austin? New York? Dallas? Chicago?
I live in Texas, but I do have to warn you, it gets cold here from time to time when the wind blows in the winter. sometimes
[EDIT] - Of course, outside America might be a good fit too, there are so many places, and it seems like you've got pretty much free reign -- you've got a pretty rare chance I don't think many people get (though we all decide our daily lives, I don't think many people get as clear a decision point as you have right now), enjoy it
Might I recommend a book called Quitter by Jon Acuff? He's done a couple of books about making the leap from the corporate world to a more fulfilling "dream" job. It was a good, quick read.
If you've got the savings and a decent plan, I'd say go for it.
Word of warning - Its easy to take a break and end up getting nothing done. Set boundaries.
So right now I am working for myself during the nights, sacrificing some of my sleep.
If I where you or have some saving, I will definitely go for it.
You don't sound like you do.
http://www.npr.org/2013/05/20/183910777/seeing-the-northern-...
Quite a few people seem to be able to make a living as indie developers. But I wonder how many fail, without making their story public. People like to read about success stories, but not about failures.
If you ever want to meet up and chat, feel free to ping me. I've been doing indie development for ~3 yrs.
Many people in this world do not enjoy their jobs, but you appear to have the resources and the freedom to try to find the job you like.
P.S. Here's an idea. Have you considered going back to school for a Master's, if you don't already have one? That could give you more personal time to explore side projects (as well as hopefully working on something cool for your degree), handily explains 2-3 years of gap in employment history, and you come out with a degree. Thus allowing you to hedge your bets in case you have to rejoin the corporate world later.
You sound like you are having the usual symptoms of wanting to do your own thing. Remember that if you don't try you will never find out. This is me speaking from experience. Best of luck!
I did something similar, but I did it much before 30. Haven't regretted it so far.
Go for it.
I'm currently in a similar situation. I started learning how to program about a year ago and even got a job at a startup. I really want to learn iOS dev because just being a RoR dev will limit my career path real soon. I quit my job a few weeks ago and have been spending all my time learning iOS dev. My goal is to find another job after I'm comfortable with iOS.
Certainly not at a big company.
It will open your mind and give you life changing experiences. Stop working on some app...Go for something big. it will come to you
Don't worry about a gap in your resume, you'll probably make something notable on your own that could carry your career/life into a new direction.
