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0 pointsembolism12y ago0 comments

Except that we don't really know what the organization does. We only have insinuations by Snowden and detractors against the US.

We do have evidence that they conduct massive surveillance could be unconstitutional.

We do not have evidence that they are abusing this, and more importantly we don't know whether they have been able to save lives.

It could be that the people who work there know about positive life-saving results from the work they do and that's why they continue to do it.

(Edit: downvotes are fine, but it would be nice to also see a single link to evidence that the intelligence itself is being misused as opposed to protecting people)

0 comments

PavlovsCat12y ago

Abdulrahman Al-Awlaki, 16 years old, born to the "wrong father" and killed by a drone strike 2 weeks after his father was murdered. I say murdered because without a trial and imminent threat, that's what it is. And this is not a solitary incident either, just a rather poignant one. Next question?

edit:

http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/05/24/what-not-specifically-t...

In other words, it sounds like some in the Administration suspect that someone within the targeting chain of command may have invented the Ibrahim al-Banna presence as a way to get at Awlaki’s son.

If this doesn't make you throw up, what will?

embolismOP12y ago

Murdered by the NSA? Or is this a reason to bring down the entire US?

PavlovsCat12y ago

No, murdered by sending out drones in random directions without any targeting info. These things and their programming just pop out of thin air, after all. And then they track just by scent, for weeks even.

Or is this a reason to bring down the entire US?

For someone in the third world who may have little to lose and becomes witness to such senseless slaughter? Maybe.

But then again I'm not quite sure what you're even asking, maybe elaborate. Do you think maybe cutting down on the nazi stuff a liiiittle bit would endanger the US in any meaningful way?

2 more replies

mikeash12y ago

There is no need to demonstrate that the intelligence is actively being misused. The simple fact that collecting it is unconstitutional and abusive is enough.

embolismOP12y ago

It's certainly enough to warrant an open political inquiry and changes of policy, as well as resignations from those politically responsible.

It's not at all obvious that all the NSA staff should just walk away from their jobs. If the NSA is actually protecting people, that would be just as irresponsible.

mikeash12y ago

I think it's safe to say that they are not protecting people to any major degree. When pressed, the only justification they can come up with is "terrorism", which is a completely insignificant threat.

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0 pointsembolism12y ago0 comments

Except that we don't really know what the organization does. We only have insinuations by Snowden and detractors against the US.

We do have evidence that they conduct massive surveillance could be unconstitutional.

We do not have evidence that they are abusing this, and more importantly we don't know whether they have been able to save lives.

It could be that the people who work there know about positive life-saving results from the work they do and that's why they continue to do it.

(Edit: downvotes are fine, but it would be nice to also see a single link to evidence that the intelligence itself is being misused as opposed to protecting people)

0 comments

PavlovsCat12y ago

edit:

http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/05/24/what-not-specifically-t...

If this doesn't make you throw up, what will?

embolismOP12y ago

Murdered by the NSA? Or is this a reason to bring down the entire US?

PavlovsCat12y ago

Or is this a reason to bring down the entire US?

For someone in the third world who may have little to lose and becomes witness to such senseless slaughter? Maybe.

But then again I'm not quite sure what you're even asking, maybe elaborate. Do you think maybe cutting down on the nazi stuff a liiiittle bit would endanger the US in any meaningful way?

2 more replies

mikeash12y ago

There is no need to demonstrate that the intelligence is actively being misused. The simple fact that collecting it is unconstitutional and abusive is enough.

embolismOP12y ago

It's certainly enough to warrant an open political inquiry and changes of policy, as well as resignations from those politically responsible.

It's not at all obvious that all the NSA staff should just walk away from their jobs. If the NSA is actually protecting people, that would be just as irresponsible.

mikeash12y ago

1 more reply

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