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0 pointsJtsummers12y ago0 comments

> I don't favor speeding tickets at all; as far as I can see, they're just a way for governments to capriciously collect extra revenue from people without giving it the politically unpopular name of "taxes".

> Repeated-burglaries guy is obviously opting out of functioning in society. If the cost of keeping him out of it exceeds the cost he inflicts by his presence, I'd say we should keep him incarcerated and spend less, not just tell him "OK, burgle all you want".

So reckless, dangerous driving is part of being a functional member of society, but 3 (apparently) non-violent and (in the scheme of things) minor thefts over 44 years gets someone thrown in jail for the rest of their life. That could be 30+ years on the dole. We (the taxpayers) are paying for his feeding, his clothing, his medical, his guards, his shelter. I seriously doubt another 3 thefts over the remainder of his life is worth that cost.

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AndyJPartridge12y ago

The thing is, it's not just the financial cost of a theft, it's the emotional and practical cost too.

Having had 5 laptops stolen in one hit - because I was updating staff that weekend and the guy got lucky - the cost of changing passwords, and the nagging feeling I may have missed something somewhere and I may get hit with another internet theft....

Then the feeling that the guy(s?) were in my house while my partner and I were sleeping. Na. People who do this need to be taken out of society.

For the speeding point, you can kill people at 30mph if something goes wrong with the car or you do something stupid.

Livven12y ago

You just seriously advocated having someone who stole your laptop locked up in prison for life because of the inconvenience they caused you?

Wow.

JtsummersOP12y ago

Best I can tell it's an issue of philosophy. Many people in the US (my people, lucky me) are fearful and angry. We really seem to like our vengeance (consider the country music songs that were coming out post 9/11 as we entered Afghanistan and Iraq). When it comes to crime we don't bother with "rehabilitation". When it comes to mental health, that's clearly a lack of personal responsibility. If I can tell that they aren't really a knight in King Arthur's court on a holy quest, then they should be able to realize it too. Lock them up, throw away the key.

thaumasiotes12y ago

Two points:

- Driving below the speed of surrounding traffic is much more likely to cause an accident than driving at a "high" speed. The speed of traffic is essentially always above the speed limit. (Which might itself give you pause in characterizing it as "reckless, dangerous driving".)

- Reckless, dangerous driving is an independent offense, which can be (and is) charged separately from speeding.

JtsummersOP12y ago

1) I've not seen the numbers, but I'll concede that's likely true, particularly on highways.

2) For someone who wants long sentences for other offenses, it seems odd that you don't see that control of speed (particularly on city streets, my view on highway speed limits is different) and ticketing of speeders is also a pretty effective mitigator of reckless driving on those same streets. It doesn't stop it, we'll never stop crime until everyone becomes a saint (IOW, never), but reducing the occurrence is a nice tradeoff.

Now that that's out of the way, care to respond to the part where you suggest the cost of life in prison (to the taxpayers) is worth preventing 3 more non-violent burglaries (if he keeps to his average)?

thaumasiotes12y ago

"If the cost of keeping him out of [society] exceeds the cost he inflicts by his presence, I'd say we should keep him incarcerated and spend less"

kayoone12y ago

You know what it costs to imprison a human being for 40-50 years? I doubt it outweighs a couple of stolen wallets...

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kayoone12y ago

Oh come on... Speeding clearly implies more risk, in the case of an impact (in the city for example) the end result can be much worse.

On the other hand a guy who has comitted 2-3 non violent crimes in his life because hes probably broke and has mental issues. I am not saying thats ok, but spending the life in prison for that? He wouldnt even have to go to prison for that in the country i live in.

pandaman12y ago

Burglary is punished so severely because, like you said, the end result can be much worse than just stealing property. Can you honestly say that chances of speeding causing any harm what so ever are comparable to chances of burglary turning into an assault, rape or murder?

tluyben212y ago

It's quite worrying that a country seems to do some sort of precog on these people; i'm sure there are cases where stealing a wallet goes on to assault, rape or murder. I don't think locking people up because that could happen is a brilliant plan. Why not lock up a lot more people? I mean little boys who torture (and kill) animals turn into killers? It's pretty vague and weird to think like that.

This guy obviously has issues and they need to be looked at; locking him up has no use whatsoever besides 'making the public feel safe'. While it makes things less safe; if I know I'll go to jail the rest of my life, i'll make sure to kill the people in the room so I have a chance of escaping; what have I to lose? This guy didn't think like that, but with this kind of strangely harsh punishment, why would I hold back on any crime I commit?

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AndyJPartridge12y ago

The thing is, it's not just the financial cost of a theft, it's the emotional and practical cost too.

Then the feeling that the guy(s?) were in my house while my partner and I were sleeping. Na. People who do this need to be taken out of society.

For the speeding point, you can kill people at 30mph if something goes wrong with the car or you do something stupid.

Livven12y ago

You just seriously advocated having someone who stole your laptop locked up in prison for life because of the inconvenience they caused you?

Wow.

JtsummersOP12y ago

thaumasiotes12y ago

Two points:

- Reckless, dangerous driving is an independent offense, which can be (and is) charged separately from speeding.

JtsummersOP12y ago

1) I've not seen the numbers, but I'll concede that's likely true, particularly on highways.

thaumasiotes12y ago

"If the cost of keeping him out of [society] exceeds the cost he inflicts by his presence, I'd say we should keep him incarcerated and spend less"

kayoone12y ago

You know what it costs to imprison a human being for 40-50 years? I doubt it outweighs a couple of stolen wallets...

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kayoone12y ago

Oh come on... Speeding clearly implies more risk, in the case of an impact (in the city for example) the end result can be much worse.

pandaman12y ago

tluyben212y ago

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