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0 pointsenko12y ago0 comments

> people are aware of the fact that the ACLU is a civil liberties advocacy organization and that this naturally biases towards the left wing

Does it? I can think of any number of civil liberties which I would associate with the "right" wing of American politics. Right to bear arms, for example, freedom of speech and religion, right to life. The "stand your ground" phenomenon, a very American thing, is definitely right-wing.

It seems to me more that the "right" and "left" have adopted certain civil liberties for their pet causes, and the ACLU, a left wing organisation for sure, advocates for their favoured issues. But let's not confuse that specific organisation and their agenda with the general concept of "civil liberties" per se.

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WildUtah12y ago

I can think of any number of civil liberties which I would associate with the "right" wing of American politics.

The ACLU, for example, was a leading plaintiff working to get the Citizens United ruling in favor of freedom of speech including corporate advocacy. The same ACLU is a strong Second Amendment supporter.

And the NSA reform bills in the Congress have about equal support from both parties.

SilasX12y ago

>The same ACLU is a strong Second Amendment supporter.

Could you tell me specifically what definition of "strong supporter" you're using here? I can't think of any reasonable one that would make your claim true. Supporter, maybe.

But a "strong supporter" is not someone who endorses a watered down version of the Second Amendment, and then spends zero effort defending infringements of that.

eropple12y ago

Disagreeing with your interpretation of the Second Amendment does not mean they do not support civil rights. Nor does spending their money and time defending civil rights that don't have massive organizations devoted to defending them.

SilasX12y ago

Yeah, I get that the ACLU's actions regarding the 2nd Amendment are defensible.

That wasn't the topic.

The topic was the claim that the ACLU is a "strong supporter" of the second amendment. Do you know a definition of "strong supporter" that is appropriate for the ACLU's actions regarding the Second Amendment?

No, I don't want to hear about how great the ACLU is.

No, I don't want to hear about the ACLU really does support civil rights.

No, I don't want to hear about how their position on the 2nd amendment is reasonable.

No, I don't want to hear about all the other people who can protect the second amendment.

I want something responsive to my question: in what sense is the ACLU not just a "supporter" but a "strong supporter" of the Second Amendment?

Don't have anything to say about that? Then please stay out of the discussion rather than changing topics and blurring the issues. Thanks.

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lotharbot12y ago

In a smaller example, the ACLU recently supported my father-in-law's small church in its suit against a local government ordinance restricting their ability to pass out literature on public sidewalks. Religious proselytizing usually falls more under the domain of the right than the left.

People sometimes like to paint their side as "for freedom" and the other side as "wants to restrict you", but the reality is far more complicated, changing issue-by-issue and occasionally covering legitimate tradeoffs where both sides might be considered "for freedom".

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WildUtah12y ago

I can think of any number of civil liberties which I would associate with the "right" wing of American politics.

And the NSA reform bills in the Congress have about equal support from both parties.

SilasX12y ago

>The same ACLU is a strong Second Amendment supporter.

Could you tell me specifically what definition of "strong supporter" you're using here? I can't think of any reasonable one that would make your claim true. Supporter, maybe.

But a "strong supporter" is not someone who endorses a watered down version of the Second Amendment, and then spends zero effort defending infringements of that.

eropple12y ago

SilasX12y ago

Yeah, I get that the ACLU's actions regarding the 2nd Amendment are defensible.

That wasn't the topic.

No, I don't want to hear about how great the ACLU is.

No, I don't want to hear about the ACLU really does support civil rights.

No, I don't want to hear about how their position on the 2nd amendment is reasonable.

No, I don't want to hear about all the other people who can protect the second amendment.

I want something responsive to my question: in what sense is the ACLU not just a "supporter" but a "strong supporter" of the Second Amendment?

Don't have anything to say about that? Then please stay out of the discussion rather than changing topics and blurring the issues. Thanks.

2 more replies

lotharbot12y ago

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse