The organisation started from a very brief lightning talk that went something along the lines of (me paraphrasing from memory):
"Who here in this room has experienced depression?" (for which the person asking the question put their hand up. After a few seconds, quite a few people in the crowd had their hands up. "Look around, I want you to know that you are not the only ones who experience this, and there are always people willing to talk."
One of the ideas they have is, for anybody who is willing, to put a BlueHackers sticker on their laptop. This little gesture is more than just a decal though, because it informs other hackers that you understand that if they are feeling depressed, they don't need to deal with it on their own. You are telling them that you are willing to discuss anything with them, especially if they are feeling down.
I have had the sticker on my laptop for over two years now. Although I haven't had anybody recognise it, or comment on it, or indeed discuss any issues with me as a consequence of it, and although I myself have been lucky enough not to have to experience depression, I am absolutely, 100% willing to respond to anybody who wishes to chat to me about such issues (on the off chance they recognise the BlueHackers sticker). I would love if this idea took off, so that people all around the world could see that there are so many people who are willing to talk.
[0] - http://bluehackers.org/
The blue sticker says you'll happily talk, and also listen if they have something profound to get off their chest. That's really the important part, it's not about giving advice.
Disclaimer: I have never been psychologically evaluated for depression or anxiety.
Except destigmatising mental health problems is an important step in letting people get therapeutic help.
Someone suffering a mental health problem might not know where to turn to or want a bit of support to go get help. Knowing that colleagues and friends are not judgmental about mental health; or that those people will help access services is a good thing.
I've gone through it myself, both badly and more commonly to lesser extents, and while I'm not a professional and don't claim to be, I do have the personal understanding, and can understand why/how people feel depressed. Myself, I find talking to people helps, not all the time, but often, and I know when I might want to.
As it is, not everyone is such a way either - for many people, just knowing that there is someone that could talk with if they wanted to can be helpful.
As it is, I find the description of depression as a mental illness a bit overbroad - yes, it definitely is a real condition (sometimes lifelong, sometimes intermittent, sometimes temporary) and unfortunately there isn't a better term, but it isn't something requiring drugs (which can make things worse in some conditions)/ doctors all the time, and normal people can and should help if they feel able and willing to.
Excuse me, but what "formal background" is that? It's not as though psychology is a science, or that psychologists know what causes depression or how to treat it -- public evidence clearly proves they do not.
The field of psychology is such a disaster that the director of the NIMH recently ruled that the DSM (psychology's "bible") may no longer be used as the basis for scientific research proposals, for the simple reason that it has no scientific content. The director said:
Source: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/about/director/2013/transforming-dia...
Quote: "While DSM has been described as a “Bible” for the field, it is, at best, a dictionary, creating a set of labels and defining each. The strength of each of the editions of DSM has been “reliability” – each edition has ensured that clinicians use the same terms in the same ways. The weakness is its lack of validity."
"Unlike our definitions of ischemic heart disease, lymphoma, or AIDS, the DSM diagnoses are based on a consensus about clusters of clinical symptoms, not any objective laboratory measure. In the rest of medicine, this would be equivalent to creating diagnostic systems based on the nature of chest pain or the quality of fever. Indeed, symptom-based diagnosis, once common in other areas of medicine, has been largely replaced in the past half century as we have understood that symptoms alone rarely indicate the best choice of treatment. Patients with mental disorders deserve better. [emphasis added]
As to depression specifically, psychological treatments are notoriously ineffective, but alternative neuroscientific approaches like deep brain stimulation (DBS) are showing great promise. A recent flurry of treatment outcomes that apply deep brain stimulation lead to outcomes in which, by throwing a switch, a brain surgeon can literally turn depression on and off.
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/02/magazine/02depression.html...
Quote: '"So we turn it on," Mayberg told me later, "and all of a sudden she says to me, 'It's very strange,' she says, 'I know you've been with me in the operating room this whole time. I know you care about me. But it's not that. I don't know what you just did. But I'm looking at you, and it's like I just feel suddenly more connected to you.' '
"Mayberg, stunned, signaled with her hand to the others, out of Deanna's view, to turn the stimulator off."
'"And they turn it off," Mayberg said, "and she goes: 'God, it's just so odd. You just went away again. I guess it wasn't really anything.'"'
I emphasize this procedure is still experimental and is not yet being offered as a clinical treatment. My point is that people need to get over their reverence for psychology -- it's not scientific, and there's no evidence that it is effective in any scientific sense.
This may come as a surprise to some, but within the mental health field, a revolution is taking place -- a revolution that intends to replace psychological treatments with neuroscientific ones.
If you just want something for your laptop, I suggest printing out on a piece of paper and sticky taping it to your machine[0]. Although a license is not specified, I'm quite confident that from speaking to these people (and their philosophy on open source) they'd be more than happy for people to print and share them.
"We’re seeing a lot requests for the stickers, which is great – we’re happy to post some, but we do need to optimise things a bit otherwise the logistics (and cost) won’t be practical. So here’s the deal for the currently remaining roll of approx 500 stickers.
If you are active for a local user group, conference or company, and want a sticker for yourself as well as some to hand out at your next meeting or just among your colleagues, send us an email at l i f e (at) b l u e h a c k e r s (dot) o r g with a brief note on what group/company/conference it is, your address of course, and how many stickers you need.
I think numbers of up to a couple of dozen are practical at this stage. Remember, we’ll be printing more stickers anyway so this is just to get things going and spread the word further. We’ll gather the emails and do a mailout about once a week, and of course we’ll reply to let you know when they’ve been posted, and how many you get. Okidoki?
By the way, if you’re on Facebook you can also join the BlueHackers cause, again to help make the issue more visible." [1]
I don't know if it is still true, but I will try.
[1]http://bluehackers.org/2009/02/02/if-you-want-bluehackers-st...
The last time I was on HN and the topic of suicide came up, I wrote kind of a ranty piece that I am not up to editing it (to remove the rantiness) and reposting. The short version: If you know someone who is suicidal and you care about them, spend time with them. In person. Suicide is almost always committed when one is alone.
My credentials: I attempted suicide at 17 and have been hospitalized once or twice for being suicidal in my teens/twenties. In recent years, when medical issues make me mentally and emotionally unstable, my adult sons "babysit" me (in other words, I am not left alone when I might be genuinely suicidal and not just grumpy about life's stressors). I am 48 and I am okay these days in spite of serious medical problems which have somatopsychic impacts (it's a real word -- look it up). So I know it is a method that works.
100%, although I wish we talked more about the challenge of determining that someone is suicidal.
Here's what I wrestle with the most about this. I fear that if I "misdiagnose" someone as suicidal, that I might have now given them the idea that there is such a thing as suicide and it may now become an option, completely backfiring against my goal of helping them.
I wonder if there is best practices although it seems a bit silly given we are basically trying to read someone's mind - something that even they(especially them) might not have clarity about.
The next thing I felt about the suicide question was that it was a way of categorising people. If they considered suicide, then they need immediate help, otherwise it's no so important, so offer them some pills, refer them to counselling (which was offered to me with a 4 month waiting list, that was not a lot of help). The pills weren't what I needed anyway, so I didn't really get a lot out of going to see the doctor. Talking to your family about it is a really important step though.
Basically you WANT to talk explicitely about suicide. From what the lady on the phone said, most of the time the suicidal person wants to talk about it.
I'd say that, if you're worried, starting a conversation about it (in person) is just about the best thing you could do. A "missed diagnosis" is far worse than a "misdiagnosis".
Sorry for the pun.
It helps that I have an especially close relationship to them. Also, they were raised by me, so are well educated in certain social paradigms.
I will add that most people who are suicidal will "tell" you. They often talk about suicide, though they may then claim it is a joke. It usually is not. If someone frequently says things like "I wish I were dead", you should take that seriously, basically.
We humans need social contact and this has been known since at least the time of Aristotle (and probably time immemorial).
Perhaps you could answer this question: when your adult sons come over and care for you (this is a really great thing btw, and something we have lost as a society), is that in itself theraputic? Or is it just a stop-gap?
If it is theraputic, then we are missing a key piece of the discussion in the discourse of mental health.
My sons are taking care of me so I can get well, physically. Part of that is dealing with the brain chemistry fall out as I fight the infections that overran my system, etc. Yes, over time, their devoted care is convincing me someone actually cares about me even though neither of them is the gushy type. They do the important stuff. They provide the care I need.
I was a homemaker and full time mom for many years. I took devoted care of them. The three of us are getting physically well together, but I was the sickest. So the care I gave them is coming back to me. That is a first for my life. For the most part, my emotional generosity has gotten me burned by other people.
tldr: It wouldn't be inaccurate to say that it is therapeutic.
Suicide is the most selfish thing one can do, that's my opinion.
People have this bizarre idea that mental illness somehow doesn't "count". That you have to fight it, and that if you lose, it's your own fault.
You are, right here, blaming the victim of the disease. Your brother died from a mental illness. It killed him, just as surely as cancer or a heart attack might have killed him. You'd never, ever, ever say that someone who's killed by a heart attack is "selfish", so don't do it for mental illnesses either.
it accomplishes nothing
It accomplishes nothing for you. For the person committing suicide, it frees them from significant pain of some sort. That might be psychological pain due to a disturbed mental state, but it's still pain.
Guilt is a hard one and you have to learn to deal with it and move on, but blaming the victim isn't going to help there.
Some additional reading material that might help inspire some compassion, also both good and entertaining reads in their own right:
http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-...
http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/features/2010/12/20/101220f...
When he took his own life, I had an initial period of unanswerable questions and great sorrow, followed by deep resentment. He had so many people he could have reached out to and so many people reaching out to him, and he just decided to take an easier way out. It was selfish to leave his family hanging like that with so many questions, and the worst part is how difficult it was for them to move on.
I hope you are just angry that he committed suicide, and don't actually mean that. If you do mean that, you shouldn't be surprised that he killed himself. Suicidal people tend to look frantically for any reason they can find to not carry through with it. This kind of cold, judgmental attitude shown by a loved one at the wrong time can be the final straw.
I continue to appreciate your honest and forthright approach to addressing issues such as this.
I read an article about a sports person here who was going to commit suicide, they had it all planned out, and planned the day. But on the day he planned to do it, his mother stayed home instead of going to Mass. Saved his life.
For example, you might try reading literature with multiple different perspectives on the issue. Then try to figure out which ideas are right and why. (If you've already done this, forgive me, and please please inform me why Szasz is mistaken, I would love to learn something.)
He was an asshole who spent sixty years shitting over real science to promote his politics, and you're an asshole for trying to promote his politics at a digital wake.
Am I still allowed to talk to him on the phone? Email? Can I be within a kilometer of his house? Is it like a restraining order?
All the comment you replied to is saying is that if you notice a friend in trouble, spend time with him. You seriously think that is an awful thing?
"23RD JAN 2014 Recent experiences caused me to examine my motivation for undertaking potentially revenue-generating projects. I initiated this site in order to produce income — a reason which seemed to require no further examination at the time. However, upon further reflection I discovered that I sought something more significant than income.
After pondering more deeply, I realized that income generation is not my ultimate motivation; I recognized that there are contexts in which money is useless or non-existent (e.g. being stranded alone on an island; or when a national government is radically re-structured in the wake of a natural disaster). Money is merely a means to attain other ends — it is a tool. Accordingly, I recognized that creating and producing value is my primary goal, while income generation follows subsequently.
This realization informs my time expenditure; I could cease writing this passage, and instead apply for employment positions via the internet. Conceivably, this strategy could be more effective for increasing my revenue over the short term — prior to my insight of today, I might have pursued this option. However, I now distinguish between income generation and value creation, and currently aim to maximize the latter. Accordingly, I will perform salaried labor for the minimum amount of time necessary to meet my material needs, while devoting all time thereafter to working on my venture."
Insightful, admirable person. Rest in peace.
I've struggled with depression too, though never been suicidal. Both of my parents made multiple suicide attempts last year.
I hope you don't blame yourself for not being there for your brother. You can't predict when someone will need help, it's extremely difficult for most people to offer effective help, and people struggling with depression and other mental illnesses often get good at hiding it.
http://www.robsheldon.com/blog/depression-programming/
Just submitted it.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7228491
Very interesting piece (will put my thoughts in the comments of that).
I know that this sort of thing cannot be easily summed up.
However, most of us on the outside have little clue about what sets these things in motion, for various individuals, in the first place.
Broadly and typically, is it a fundamental disillusionment with (and thereby rejection of) the state of affairs of the world and the person's place in that world?
Is it a sense of (perceived) total betrayal of the social contract?
I'm sure any elaboration would help others understand this better.
Then there seems to be a slightly greater sensitivity to problems. Outwardly, I can power through a lot of problems -- financial trouble, management, work, personal life stuff, whatever -- but inwardly, it kills me a little bit.
Annoyingly, other people's problems bother me a lot too, extending all the way out to sociological issues. I think this is part of what created David Foster Wallace's famous speech, "This is Water" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI) -- he eventually committed suicide. But this can also be a strength, it's what drives me to try to make a difference.
Anyway, the real trouble begins when I'm in a biological downswing and things in life start getting really hard. In a single year, I lost most of my friends over a disagreement, my parents both had serious issues (and I was their counselor for much of it), my business was struggling, and the effort I had put into training for search and rescue all Summer got wasted when the vehicle I was driving died on the way up to the final exam. It was just a lot of stuff all at once, so when the mood problems hit, I barely functioned at all for about a month.
The only common theme that I think I've found so far among people who struggle with depression is a feeling that nobody cares about them, or that they're undervalued in some really big way. Struggling with depression is challenging; struggling with it alone is extremely difficult.
On the other hand, because of the social stigma it currently carries, few people want to make a big deal of depression when they're struggling with it.
So, if you think you know someone who's having trouble with it, it can sometimes help them a lot to just initiate contact and suggest spending just a little bit of time doing something they enjoy: a card game, going out for a bit, watching TV, whatever. It doesn't have to get heavy. It'll help them to know that somebody cares.
Allie Brosh in Hyperbole and a Half puts it as well as I've seen http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-par...
One aspect is the anhedonia (joylessness); another is the pain.
I suppose you might call some of this “disillusionment”, but that makes it sound cognitive, and intellectual, and amenable to argument and reasoning. Whereas it's more an affective and emotional state, not a set of propositions or an intellectual theory about the world.
When I'm not depressed, it's not that I believe intellectually in a god or a purpose to life any more than when I am depressed. It's just that my non-depressed self generally enjoys being alive; or that when he doesn't, he knows that he can wait out a period of blah or even normal-grade sadness or grief to reach a point where he'll again experience moments of joy.
When I am depressed, the subjective experience of being alive is at best deadened and deadening (although my depressed self knows intellectually, from experience, that he'll reach the other side), and at worst so actively painful that it doesn't seem like any period of happiness at the other end could be worth suffering through the bad stretch. As though someone said we're going to torture you on the rack now, but after a month or two you can have a lollipop, so just hang in there.
Anyway, read the Hyperbole and a Half comic. I don't know how many people who have been depressed are depressed in the way that Allie Brosh was, but she nailed it for me.
My health often deteriorates for short periods of time, perhaps a day or two, sometimes a week or so. In these situations there is often some trigger - high workload, poor sleep hygiene etc. My mood doesn't usually reach such an extreme that it causes any significant difficulty day to day.
Episodes of illness that have a significant detrimental impact on day to day life seem to build up slowly. They start out like the episodes described above but they just keep on going until my mood is so extreme that day to day life becomes very difficult to deal with.
My most recent episode of this nature was probably caused by the stress of a couple of deaths in the family, a daughter who doesn't want to sleep, a wife commuting across country to work, a high workload myself and (frustratingly) mental health services not providing care when I could see my health was deteriorating.
It's been around 6 years between my last two episodes of that nature.
Poor sleep hygiene is by far the biggest risk for me and it becomes a vicious cycle if I'm in a manic phase. Other than that, continued high levels of stress are a problem but only really if I'm dealing with multiple stressors.
External factors (financial/relationship problems and the other various pressures of life) can contribute to the problem and either be a trigger for or worsen the symptoms. But there are many instances in which someone who is otherwise successful and happy with things in general (as it sounds like this man was) can suffer from it. Everything can be going fantastic in your life, but the "black dog" comes visiting nonetheless.
I know a fair amount about such things. I suspect bio-medical/brain chemistry issues are much more common than is generally recognized. I manage a lot of my issues in part with diet. I think a lot more can be done. But I don't know how to get the word out.
Depressed people can be disillusioned, of course, but that is a symptom, not a cause. The cause is still somewhat mysterious, but it's biological, physical, not an attitude thing.
Wow. My heart goes out to you. Hang in there.
We will not be able to engage in thoughtful, constructive and mature conversations if one of the unfortunate outcomes of mental illness is so taboo that we can not speak its name in public. Can you imagine a sexual education class where the teacher used terms like "thingies," "who-hahs" or "that other kind of sex"?
Or just 'suicided'. Suicide is typically a noun, but can be used as a verb too. Using the word commit, to me, ties it with judgmental phrases like 'committing a crime' or 'committing a sin'. Part of changing our perspective on mental illness will be to call out the subtle ways in which we demonize or otherwise blame the victim.
I generally agree with you and stated clearly that it sounded like suicide. But, a) my mom says "funerals are for the living". So I think we need to respect the pain of the family here. And b) I have been writing online about very hard, delicate topics for quite a long time. So I have some practice with walking that line which I don't think we can expect or demand from someone in shock and mourning.
Why not take a step back and ask yourself whether this might be a helpful thing to do in a universe which didn't revolve around your debating skills.
> What happened to Stephen and our family is something that “happens to someone else.”
Mental health issues impact everyone at some point in their life – either personally, or through someone close. Unfortunately, society seems to discount mental health issues – they are not an open discussion topic. They are complex and difficult to understand and diagnose. This is something we should all endeavor to correct, for the better health of everyone.
The best solution to depression is often simply finding what works for you through trial and error of available options including medication, therapy, supplements, better nutrition, exercise etc. Unfortunately, this is a long and arduous process that some never make it through. How can we accelerate this discovery process for mentally ill people to find the help they need?
How? People are labelled mentally ill IFF they do things that have a stigma attached.
I am going through something similar right now with my father who has psychotic depression. It is really hard.
Thank you for your post, and for helping to raise awareness about this. I will try to help.
I think you touched on one of the biggest issues: the stereotype that people with mental health problems appear different and have a lower social status. As your story illustrates, the conditions affect all sorts of people, including those who are smart, successful and career-oriented.
Many people fail to recognize the severity of psychological problems because they're too busy looking at superficial measures of well being: a person's career, his or her physical appearance, etc. But depression has made some of us feel as if we're in a deep fog or a war zone, even if, on the surface, we live in nice neighborhoods and succeed in the workplace.
The key is to be more vocal about this struggle beneath the surface — and to speak up very soon. In my observation, the earlier in life a person can overcome depression, the greater his or her chances of becoming happy and stable.
Kudos on taking the initiative to speak up about this important issue and responding constructively to such as a great loss.
THIS.
Being vocal about the struggle is so crucial. My family had no clue what to even look for when these issues started cropping up much less how to get him help. By the time we got him the level of help he needed he had already been in the throes of deep depression and anxiety. Thanks for your kind words.
We lost my sister to depression about 6 years ago. Superficially, life was fine -- good career, no money issues, good friends. But she was carrying baggage around from years earlier, when she was overworked and overloaded in grad school. (In a lab notorious for overwork, and unfortunately, suicide.) She was told she was depressed then, but no one really got the scope of it. I don't know why she wasn't getting treatment years later, other than things seemed to be going alright.
There were a couple of things, that later, seem to be really key. Had we known, or understood, I think things might have been different.
I'm not aware of your brothers mental health issues but I can certainty relate. If I find that my mental health is deteriorating I try to do two things. 1- Start the process of cognitive creativity to stimulate my mind 2- Reach out to the world by attempting to solve someones problems
By taking focus away from my world and looking at others, I can better come to self realization and my drive to good use by connecting with others. Often when times are hard you just need to reach out and get a response from anyone. I decided to make this website http://boopoohoo.com that allows for that feedback loop I need to keep going. I don't know the people there and it doesn't get all that much traffic but I check it daily just encase someone has left me a message. A simple thing such as telling a total stranger your opinion on a delama they are having can make a world of difference in their day.
If you ever need to reach out, I'm happy to help.....
If I were anywhere nearby I'd have come along to the memorial service but the Atlantic is quite big... I hope the service goes well for you all.
Sadly the troll(s) in this thread are demonstrating the kind of prejudice that can make it difficult to have a serious discussion about the more immediate problems faced by people suffering from mental health problems.
My friend committed suicide in a very public way almost three years ago. She was at that the time just completed her master degree, got a high paying job, recently married and fund-raised thousands of dollars for charity. She was pretty much in the traditional 'well on her way' trajectory that many people are dreaming of.
Suicide is hard to understand.
Firstly, people sharing their story. This is exactly what Steve wanted, to share his story, his ideas. Sharing the story is so important to removing the stigma around mental health. It warms my heart to see people with the courage to tell others about their struggles (and then it double-warms my heart to see other people supporting them!!)
Secondly, the sheer support for him. He was a quiet person but a mental giant. Just to have so many people acknowledge him is truly beautiful for me and my family.
Here's my story. If you ever need to bounce ideas back and forth or just need someone to talk to, send me a message via twitter and we can take it offline.
Make every day count!
It is exactly this type of attitude we have had since the dark ages that much development of treatment and studies are now only beginning to take more shape.
We have to have a much wider awareness of mental illness and how it affects the basic human rights.
People labelled mentally ill can be imprisoned without a trial.
People labelled mentally ill can avoid prison when another person who did the same actions would go to jail.
People labelled mentally ill can be drugged by force.
This is bad for basic human rights, isn't it?
Yes, it is true that many mental illnesses do not have a "screen" such that if you pass the screen, you have the illness, and if you fail it, you don't.
And yes, it means that the words we use for various mental illness might be catch-all concepts that will eventually fall into disfavor as our biological understanding increases.
And yes, it might also mean that many people who are told they must accept a lifetime diagnosis of "x" have indeed been misdiagnosed, and can later be "cured" (or reject the misdiagnosis, depending on how you look at it).
But. None of those realities mean that people are not emotionally hurting, or that they don't feel trapped to the point of self-destruction. And it doesn't mean they don't need help - emotional or pharmaceutical.
So, while you may have some beliefs or points that are worthwhile in a vacuum, it's extraordinarily insensitive the way you are communicating them, and the implications you are leaving people with. Especially in this thread.
So can people not labelled mentally ill, and involuntary confinement happens well within the confines of our legal and justice systems.
> People labelled mentally ill can avoid prison when another person who did the same actions would go to jail.
People found not guilty by reason of insanity are typically kept in a forensic unit with similar levels of freedom as a prison, and typically are detained longer. It's not as if they're turned loose.
> People labelled mentally ill can be drugged by force.
So can people not labelled mentally ill.
Evan, I'm sorry for your loss. Be with friends everyday this week. The internet can wait.
On a professional level, it is believed (and supported by some research) that this can be a trigger for people who read the article, potentially causing more suicides.
On a personal level (for you), you may want your brother remembered for his life, rather than evoking in readers' minds the image of his last moments alive.
[0] www.sprc.org/library/sreporting.pdf
[1] http://www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-repo...
[2] http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/mar/28/media-r...
For all I know it could be anything from autophagia to trichotillomania.
So in other words, conventional psychiatry failed. And the author's solution seems to be to spread it more.
Maybe after a failure like this, where we see that the care providers, hospital and "highly-respected treatment program" don't work, it's time to stop respecting that treatment program so much and consider different approaches.
If you want me to take you or Szasz seriously, please demonstrate that all three of my assertions are incorrect, with citations.
Arguing that someone dying despite psychiatry invalidates psychiatry is like arguing cancer treatment is useless because some people die of cancer.
You seem to be implying that Szasz and I hold our positions due to scientific ignorance, which is demonstrably false, and insulting. But maybe you didn't mean it that way.
No, wait, aforrester made one post on the day it was created, supporting your position in a totally different discussion of suicide. My mistake.
Still waiting for that evidence I asked for, by the way.
He also mentioned that HN is blocking him from posting more, so maybe you can blame Paul Graham for you not getting the answers you wanted. But there's still hope.
Want answers? Want a discussion on a forum that without censorship? Want a discussion where you won't be punished if you say "What You Can't Say"[0], as xenophanes dared do today? I think he, myself, and others would be happy to answer your questions at:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/fallible-ideas/info
If you don't come, and instead stick to a forum where hardly anyone continues a discussion for more than 12 hours, then I for one will figure you aren't really that interested, and I won't be motivated to write answers for you.
Anecdotal evidence against the efficacy of any medical treatment is not reason enough to abandon it.
Or are you just trolling? Pretending to be a religiously intolerant bigot? Is this an example of Poe's law in action?
